I am about to decide on programming language for the project.
The requirements are that some of customers want to run application on isolated servers without external internet access.
To do that I need to distribute application to them and cannot use SaaS approach running on, for example, my cloud (what I'd prefer to do...).
The problem is that if I decide to use Python for developing this, I would need to provide customer with easy readable code which is not really what I'd like to do (of course, I know about all that "do you really need to protect your source code" kind of questions but it's out of scope for now).
One of my colleagues told me about Docker. I can find dozen of answers about Docker container security. Problem is all that is about protecting (isolating) host from code running in container.
What I need is to know if the Python source code in the Docker Image and running in Docker Container is secured from access - can user in some way (doesn't need to be easy) access that Python code?
I know I can't protect everything, I know it is possible to decompile/crack everything. I just want to know the answer just to decide whether the way to access my code inside Docker is hard enough that I can take the risk.
Docker images are an open and documented "application packaging" format. There are countless ways to inspect the image contents, including all of the python source code shipped inside of them.
Running applications inside of a container provides isolation from the application escaping the container to access the host. They do not protect you from users on the host inspecting what is occurring inside of the container.
Python programs are distributed as source code. If it can run on a client machine, then the code is readable on that machine. A docker container only contains the application and its libraries, external binaries and files, not a full OS. As the security can only be managed at OS level (or through encryption) and as the OS is under client control, the client can read any file on the docker container, including your Python source.
If you really want to go that way, you should consider providing a full Virtual Machine to your client. In that case, the VM contains a full OS with its account based security (administrative account passwords on the VM can be different from those of the host). Is is far from still waters, because it means that the client will be enable to setup or adapt networking on the VM among other problems...
And you should be aware the the client security officer could emit a strong NO when it comes to running a non controlled VM on their network. I would never accept it.
Anyway, as the client has full access to the VM, really securing it will be hard if ever possible (disable booting from an additional device may even not be possible). It is admitted in security that if the attacker has physical access, you have lost.
TL/DR: It in not the expected answer but just don't. It you sell your solution you will have a legal contract with your customer, and that kind of problem should be handled at a legal level, not a technical one. You can try, and I have even given you a hint, but IMHO the risks are higher than the gain.
I know that´s been more than 3 years, but... looking for the same kind of solution I think that including compiled python code -not your source code- inside the container would be a challenging trial for someone trying to access your valuable source code.
If you run pyinstaller --onefile yourscript.py you will get a compiled single file that can be run as an executable. I have only tested it in Raspberry, but as far as I know it´s the same for, say, Windows.
Of course anything can be reverse engineered, but hopefully it won´t be worth the effort to the regular end user.
I think it could be a solution as using a "container" to protect our code from the person we wouldn't let them access. the problem is docker is not a secure container. As the root of the host machine has the most powerful control of the Docker container, we don't have any method to protect the root from accessing inside of the container.
I just have some ideas about a secure container:
Build a container with init file like docker file, a password must be set when the container is created;
once the container is built, we have to use a password to access inside, including
reading\copy\modify files
all the files stored on the host machine should be encypt。
no "retrieve password" or “--skip-grant-” mode is offered. that means nobody can
access the data inside the container if u lost the password.
If we have a trustable container where we can run tomcat or Django server, code obfuscation will not be necessary.
Related
I am about to decide on programming language for the project.
The requirements are that some of customers want to run application on isolated servers without external internet access.
To do that I need to distribute application to them and cannot use SaaS approach running on, for example, my cloud (what I'd prefer to do...).
The problem is that if I decide to use Python for developing this, I would need to provide customer with easy readable code which is not really what I'd like to do (of course, I know about all that "do you really need to protect your source code" kind of questions but it's out of scope for now).
One of my colleagues told me about Docker. I can find dozen of answers about Docker container security. Problem is all that is about protecting (isolating) host from code running in container.
What I need is to know if the Python source code in the Docker Image and running in Docker Container is secured from access - can user in some way (doesn't need to be easy) access that Python code?
I know I can't protect everything, I know it is possible to decompile/crack everything. I just want to know the answer just to decide whether the way to access my code inside Docker is hard enough that I can take the risk.
Docker images are an open and documented "application packaging" format. There are countless ways to inspect the image contents, including all of the python source code shipped inside of them.
Running applications inside of a container provides isolation from the application escaping the container to access the host. They do not protect you from users on the host inspecting what is occurring inside of the container.
Python programs are distributed as source code. If it can run on a client machine, then the code is readable on that machine. A docker container only contains the application and its libraries, external binaries and files, not a full OS. As the security can only be managed at OS level (or through encryption) and as the OS is under client control, the client can read any file on the docker container, including your Python source.
If you really want to go that way, you should consider providing a full Virtual Machine to your client. In that case, the VM contains a full OS with its account based security (administrative account passwords on the VM can be different from those of the host). Is is far from still waters, because it means that the client will be enable to setup or adapt networking on the VM among other problems...
And you should be aware the the client security officer could emit a strong NO when it comes to running a non controlled VM on their network. I would never accept it.
Anyway, as the client has full access to the VM, really securing it will be hard if ever possible (disable booting from an additional device may even not be possible). It is admitted in security that if the attacker has physical access, you have lost.
TL/DR: It in not the expected answer but just don't. It you sell your solution you will have a legal contract with your customer, and that kind of problem should be handled at a legal level, not a technical one. You can try, and I have even given you a hint, but IMHO the risks are higher than the gain.
I know that´s been more than 3 years, but... looking for the same kind of solution I think that including compiled python code -not your source code- inside the container would be a challenging trial for someone trying to access your valuable source code.
If you run pyinstaller --onefile yourscript.py you will get a compiled single file that can be run as an executable. I have only tested it in Raspberry, but as far as I know it´s the same for, say, Windows.
Of course anything can be reverse engineered, but hopefully it won´t be worth the effort to the regular end user.
I think it could be a solution as using a "container" to protect our code from the person we wouldn't let them access. the problem is docker is not a secure container. As the root of the host machine has the most powerful control of the Docker container, we don't have any method to protect the root from accessing inside of the container.
I just have some ideas about a secure container:
Build a container with init file like docker file, a password must be set when the container is created;
once the container is built, we have to use a password to access inside, including
reading\copy\modify files
all the files stored on the host machine should be encypt。
no "retrieve password" or “--skip-grant-” mode is offered. that means nobody can
access the data inside the container if u lost the password.
If we have a trustable container where we can run tomcat or Django server, code obfuscation will not be necessary.
I have a VM running Googles Container Optimised OS, and I want to allow running code that users provide - each user has their own container.
This code can be malicious - I want to limit the scope of the code to just its own container.
https://cloud.google.com/container-optimized-os/docs/concepts/security
Questions
A. Does the OS add enough protections for containers to be used as a sandbox? The documentation mentions that there is added security, but it does not mention anything about how effective it is at containing malicious code within a container.
B. Can docker volumes be used to limit the file system scope of the code running in a container? I want to use the CLI provided docker volume to give each user a folder on disk they can write to, but I want to prevent users reading each others data.
Any help much appreciated, Thanks.
I am about to decide on programming language for the project.
The requirements are that some of customers want to run application on isolated servers without external internet access.
To do that I need to distribute application to them and cannot use SaaS approach running on, for example, my cloud (what I'd prefer to do...).
The problem is that if I decide to use Python for developing this, I would need to provide customer with easy readable code which is not really what I'd like to do (of course, I know about all that "do you really need to protect your source code" kind of questions but it's out of scope for now).
One of my colleagues told me about Docker. I can find dozen of answers about Docker container security. Problem is all that is about protecting (isolating) host from code running in container.
What I need is to know if the Python source code in the Docker Image and running in Docker Container is secured from access - can user in some way (doesn't need to be easy) access that Python code?
I know I can't protect everything, I know it is possible to decompile/crack everything. I just want to know the answer just to decide whether the way to access my code inside Docker is hard enough that I can take the risk.
Docker images are an open and documented "application packaging" format. There are countless ways to inspect the image contents, including all of the python source code shipped inside of them.
Running applications inside of a container provides isolation from the application escaping the container to access the host. They do not protect you from users on the host inspecting what is occurring inside of the container.
Python programs are distributed as source code. If it can run on a client machine, then the code is readable on that machine. A docker container only contains the application and its libraries, external binaries and files, not a full OS. As the security can only be managed at OS level (or through encryption) and as the OS is under client control, the client can read any file on the docker container, including your Python source.
If you really want to go that way, you should consider providing a full Virtual Machine to your client. In that case, the VM contains a full OS with its account based security (administrative account passwords on the VM can be different from those of the host). Is is far from still waters, because it means that the client will be enable to setup or adapt networking on the VM among other problems...
And you should be aware the the client security officer could emit a strong NO when it comes to running a non controlled VM on their network. I would never accept it.
Anyway, as the client has full access to the VM, really securing it will be hard if ever possible (disable booting from an additional device may even not be possible). It is admitted in security that if the attacker has physical access, you have lost.
TL/DR: It in not the expected answer but just don't. It you sell your solution you will have a legal contract with your customer, and that kind of problem should be handled at a legal level, not a technical one. You can try, and I have even given you a hint, but IMHO the risks are higher than the gain.
I know that´s been more than 3 years, but... looking for the same kind of solution I think that including compiled python code -not your source code- inside the container would be a challenging trial for someone trying to access your valuable source code.
If you run pyinstaller --onefile yourscript.py you will get a compiled single file that can be run as an executable. I have only tested it in Raspberry, but as far as I know it´s the same for, say, Windows.
Of course anything can be reverse engineered, but hopefully it won´t be worth the effort to the regular end user.
I think it could be a solution as using a "container" to protect our code from the person we wouldn't let them access. the problem is docker is not a secure container. As the root of the host machine has the most powerful control of the Docker container, we don't have any method to protect the root from accessing inside of the container.
I just have some ideas about a secure container:
Build a container with init file like docker file, a password must be set when the container is created;
once the container is built, we have to use a password to access inside, including
reading\copy\modify files
all the files stored on the host machine should be encypt。
no "retrieve password" or “--skip-grant-” mode is offered. that means nobody can
access the data inside the container if u lost the password.
If we have a trustable container where we can run tomcat or Django server, code obfuscation will not be necessary.
I want to take a holistic approach backing up multiple machines running multiple Docker containers. Some might run, for example, Postgres databases. I want to back up this system, without having to have specific backup commands for different types of volumes.
It is fine to have a custom external script that sends e.g. signals to containers or runs Docker commands, but I strongly want to avoid anything specific to a certain image or type of image. In the example of Postgres, the documentation suggests running postgres-specific commands to backup databases, which goes against the design goals for the backup solution I am trying to create.
It is OK if I have to impose restrictions on the Docker images, as long as it is reasonably easy to implement by starting from existing Docker images and extending.
Any thoughts on how to solve this?
I just want to stress that I am not looking for a solution for how to back up Postgres databases under Docker, there are already many answers explaining how to do so. I am specifically looking for a way to back up any volume, without having to know what it is or having to run specific commands for its data.
(I considered whether this question belonged on SO or Serverfault, but I believe this is a problem to be solved by developers, hence it belongs here. Happy to move it if consensus is otherwise)
EDIT: To clarify, I want do something similar to what is explained in this question
How to deal with persistent storage (e.g. databases) in docker
but using the approach in the accepted answer is not going to work with Postgres (and I am sure other database containers) according to documentation.
I'm skeptical that there is a custom solution, holistic, multi machine, multi container, application/container agnostic approach. From my point of view there is a lot of orchestration activities necessary in the first place. And I wonder if you wouldn't use something like Kubernetes anyways that - supposedly - comes with its own backup solution.
For single machine, multi container setup I suggest to store your container's data, configuration, and eventual build scripts within one directory tree (e.g. /docker/) and use a standard file based backup program to backup the root directory.
Use docker-compose to managed your containers. This lets you store the configuration and even build options in a file(s). I have an individual compose file for each service, but a single one would also work.
Have a subdirectory for each service. Mount bind-mount directories aka volumes of the container there. If you need to adapt the build process more thoroughly you can easily store scripts, sources, Dockerfiles, etc. in there as well.
Since containers are supposed to be ephemeral, all persistent data should be in bind-mount and therefore in the main docker directory.
I was wondering if it is possible to offer Docker images, but not allow any access to the internals of the built containers. Basically, the user of the container images can use the services they provide, but can't dig into any of the code within the containers.
Call it a way to obfuscate the source code, but also offer a service (the software) to someone on the basis of the container, instead of offering the software itself. Something like "Container as a Service", but with the main advantage that the developer can use these container(s) for local development too, but with no access to the underlying code within the containers.
My first thinking is, the controller of the Docker instances controls everything down to root access. So no, it isn't possible. But, I am new to Docker and am not aware of all of its possibilities.
Is this idea in any way possible?
An obfuscation-based only solution would not be enough, as "Encrypted and secure docker containers" details.
You would need full control of the host your containers are running in order to prevent any "poking". And that is not the case in your scenario, where a developer does have access to the host (ie his/her local development machine) where said container would run.
What is done sometimes is to have some piece of "core" code to run on a remote location (remote server, usb device), in a way that the external piece of code on the one hand can do some client authentication but also and more importantly run some business core code in order to guarantee that the externally located code "has" to be executed to have the things done. If it were only some check that is not actually core code, a cracker could just override it and avoid calling it on the client side. But if the code is actually required to be run and its not then the software won't be able to finish its processing. Of course there is an overhead for all of this, both in complexity and probably computation times, but that's one way you could deploy something that will unfailingly be required to contact your server/external device.
Regards,
Eduardo