I am doing a class project comparing different programming languages. Is it possible to use BIOS interrupts in the Forth language? I can't seem to find any such information on this. If so what would be an example?
I think you're under a mistaken idea that there's a single all-encompassing "Forth" out there. There isn't. There are many Forth implementations. Those that run "bare bones" (without an OS) or under DOS can certainly be coaxed to access the BIOS APIs. Those that run under a 32 or 64 bit operating system like Windows or Linux are unlikely to provide such functionality, since the operating system makes it hard to run BIOS APIs to start with.
When running under Windows, using 16-bit BIOS APIs (as opposed to reading data without running BIOS code) is cumbersome. Modern BIOSes also offer 32-bit APIs, but in all cases you're limited to what hardware you can access (none) - this is enforced by the OS, not by the BIOS code.
Generally speaking, the BIOS APIs are cumbersome and there's no point to using them when you have a full-blown operating system available to you.
Now if you don't care much whether the BIOS calls access real hardware or emulated hardware, you can certainly use Forth to access something like DOSBox and run the real BIOS on emulated hardware. Heck, DOSBox provides its own BIOS implementation :)
Related
My particular hardware target is a MinnoboardMax Turbot Dual-E, but I believe this question is generic to Intel Atom/BayTrail processors on other boards.
The SoC has a "multifunction serial port" (SSP) that can be used as a SPI bus interface. It can be attached by ACPI or by PCI (in the later case, the PCI id is 0x8086:0x0f0e). And within the Linux kernel, there is existing driver support (low_speed_spidev, spi_pxa2xx_pci, spi_pxa2xx_platform) which allows access to the hardware.
I would like to access the hardware from UEFI, and I'm finding very little documentation on how to access or program this hardware. I don't care very much whether I have to set it into ACPI or PCI mode in the BIOS, either one is OK for my purposes. I'd love to find an existing driver, but after half a day of searching I'm pretty convinced it's not out there. (Happy to be proven wrong on that.)
In lieu of that, can anyone point me to any code examples that would help to bootstrap this? I've tried looking at the Linux and BSD source code, but they both involve so many extra layers for generality/portability that I'm having trouble sorting out the portions that relate to this particular device, and the portions that simply support a generic driver model.
Edit: Post originally mistakenly said AHCI.
As I understand, ACPI defines a generic hardware programming model where operating system relies on the OEM firmware provided AML (ACPI machine language) code to manipulate the hardware.
In order to execute the AML code, operating system has to incorporate an AML interpreter.
So, it looks to me that firmware developers use AML to provide a control interface between platform hardware and operating system.
But do we really need AML?
I think ultimately the hardware can only be configured through the native instruction of the platform. So the AML interpreter must translate the AML into native instructions otherwise it cannot be executed on the platform.
But what's the point of using an intermediate language like AML? I mean though the AML is said to be platform-independent, which means I can use AML to describe my platform in a non-native way.
But the AML is part of the platform firmware in practice. And the entire firmware has already been built into the target platform's native instructions. So what good can it be to make such a little part of the firmware as platform-independent? Why not just use native instructions? There must be some way to let OS use it as well. And this way operating system doesn't need the AML interpreter at all. A lot of complexity can be avoided.
One of the big goals of ACPI over its predecessor APM was to give the OS more viability and control over power state transitions.
APM was a black box. The OS knew nothing about the power management implementation. It would just call a BIOS function and the BIOS handled all of the magic. Did it work? Did the system sleep properly? Did the system freeze? Was a user application able to handle the BIOS implementation? The sad truth was that many systems had power management that was downright broken, and Microsoft wanted to provide a better power management experience for the growing laptop industry.
Now, the BIOS hands the ASL/AML code over to the OS and the OS executes it not the BIOS. If the BIOS code does something dumb (like messing with registers it shouldn't), Windows can detect that by parsing the code and block it. AML is 100% decompilable unlike C.
Remember that ACPI is not x86 specific. At the time it was developed, Itanium and Xscale were around. Intel and Microsoft needed a language that would work on all platforms, both 32 and 64 bit.
Lastly, ASL is more than just a list of executable functions. It is also number of static configuration tables. The ASL code has tables to define the non PnP hardware built onto your motherboard. It has tables of supported power states. A traditional programming language like C isn't really setup for that.
If ACPI was invented today, they would probably use something like XML to provide the info to the OS.
Originally, hardware for "80x86 PC" was cloned from IBM's PC, and this created an effective de-facto standard for hardware to follow. However it didn't take long before manufacturers wanted to add features that didn't previously exist, where there was no (official or de-facto) standard to follow.
This led to a major problem for operating system software (how do you support "non-standard chaos"). Some standards were created for some things (APM, etc) but they didn't really cover everything needed and became out-of-date. ACPI was created to fix this.
Ideally, what was (and still is) needed is standards that allow operating system to detect and use supported features of the motherboard. For example, a "standardised case temperature and fan control" device (with support for detecting how many fans, temperature sensors, etc), or a "standardised CPU speed/power consumption", a "PCI slot IRQ routing for IO APICs" standard, a "hot-plug PCI controller device" standard, etc.
However, ACPI didn't provide useful standards that hardware manufacturers and operating systems can use. Instead, ACPI provided an over-engineered mess (AML) to allow an OS to cope with ACPI's failure to standardise the hardware.
Essentially; we "need" AML now because it's the only viable way for an OS to work-around the "non-standard chaos" problem that ACPI failed to fix.
The problem with providing native code instead of AML is that different operating systems use CPUs in different ways (e.g. native 64-bit 80x86 code in firmware would be useless for an older "32-bit only" OS). AML provides portability between different types of CPUs and between the same CPU/s in different modes.
Also; native code is considered a major security problem (rootkits, etc); and people tend to think an interpreted language mitigates that problem. Of course in practice AML needs far too much access to the underlying hardware and does it in a way that an OS can't check, and there's isn't even a way for an OS to determine if the AML has been maliciously modified before the OS booted. For these reasons AML is still a major security problem despite using interpreted language.
I would like to learn how to write programs which may run without booting the operating system, like Norton Ghost or Paragon programs. I would like to be able to run the program from a CD or a USB stick.
Could you give me some pointers, please?
Basically - unless you use an existing one - you have to write your own operating system - it could be small, but it is an OS.
Writing it is a bit different from writing applications, because you have to interface with hardware directly (or through the BIOS). It requires a good knowledge of low-level programming, hardware devices specifications and processor architecture, especially if you need memory and have to switch a x86 processor to protected mode ("unreal mode" could be used, though) which uses a fairly complex mechanism. Some parts may need to be written in assembler to access the special "privileged" instructions used by "kernels" running at the most privileged level ("ring 0") in protected mode, and to handle interrupts.
You could start here http://wiki.osdev.org/Main_Page.
Delphine is an attempt to write a primitive OS using freepascal. It is not an active project anymore, but code is there for you to try.
ClassiOS is an OS written in Delphi.
A more professional solution is to go for a win32 compatible OS like On Time RTOS-32, buy a license and make a bootable stick/CD program in Delphi.
Note this an expensive solution, but used in lots of real-time critical systems. We implemented a more or less DOS clone used to boot any X86 system from a USB stick.
I was wondering, how does pthreads-win32 (windows implementation of pthreads) implement cross-threading? Is it written exclusively with windows API? I checked some of the sources and it seems that most is indeed written with windows API, tho i was wondering if it uses windows scheduler to switch between threads (and cores) as well or does it implement its own? Specifically, most processors these days implement their own scheduler (i've read about itanium arch for example, the hardwired logic supports two threads per core and it even automatically switches between them with hw logic, so evidently OS support for multiple cores is not necessarily needed), so if i have an obsolete OS like windows 32-bit or something, which doesn't support multi-core processors, would a program written with pthreads-win32 still run on more than one processor core or would only one core be used?
How about pthreads implementations (untainted posix threads)? Do they support multi-core processors even if the OS on which they are running doesn't?
I am guessing the answer is no, for both windows and posix versions, only one core is in use if the OS doesn't support for multiple cores. Tho this is just an educated guess and i would like to confirm it, so pls leave a comment.
On a side request, can you pls recommend a lib that DOES support for muli-core thread execution, even if the OS on which the program is running DOESN'T. If any exist ofc.
Also, is there a way to ensure two threads written with pthreads are being executed on different cores, or does the OS (or the processor, or pthreads lib) do the assignment automatically? Does pthreads guarantee execution on different cores if they are available?
Cheers, Val
EDIT:
I know most of these questions are implementation specific, so i was referring to this implementation of pthreads for windows http://sourceware.org/pthreads-win32/. I didn't specifically mention it before, because as far as i know, this is the most popular and widely used implementation of pthreads for windows.
So from what i'm getting, the most important thing to note in all of this is that threading has very little to do with parallelism (like UMA with multi-core processors). So while threading might be a technique to implement concurrency it is not a way of ensuring ACTUAL parallel execution, which is what i was looking for in the first place, since i am studying parallel and distributed systems and algorithms.
So to answer one question at a time. Yes, pthreads, and probably most (if not all) other threading APIs out there are based on the underlying OS API. Which ofc gives them the same limits that the OS has. Meaning, yes, if the OS (concretely in this case, some windows running for example pthreads-win32) doesn't support multiple cores, only one core is in use at all times. As is pointed out on the wiki page nob provided, to cite: "Hyper-threading requires not only that the operating system support multiple processors, but also that it be specifically optimised for HTT, and Intel recommends disabling HTT when using operating systems that have not been so optimized." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading Meaning in most cases, just hardwired processors (basic) scheduler is not enough to take advantage of multiple cores, it has to be supported/used by SW (OS support).
While this might not be a definitive proof, i believe enough evidence points in the same direction to confirm this to be the case.
I did not sift through pthreads (for posix compliant OSes) sources, i am guessing the same goes for this API, since it is more than likely to use the underlying OS API. You will have to confirm this on your own. :)
Also, any potential libs out there that might support execution on multiple cores even if the OS on which they're running on doesn't support multiple cores, you will have to find them on your own (if they exist), please leave a comment.
To ensure parallelism (execution on different cores) manually, linux does provide a way to pin a thread to a specific virtual processor (under certain conditions). To pin an entire process to a specific (virtual) processor/core, sched_setaffinity() (from sched.h) can be used. As nos pointed out, pthreads provides pthread_setaffinity_np() to pin a particular thread to a specific core. Windows supports a similar functionality with SetThreadAffinityMask(), so clearly, assigning threads manually to run in parallel on different cores is possible (if the OS supports multi-cores).
From my experience coding with pthreads, if you write for code that uses multiple threads (more than 2), they SHOULD be executed on more than one physical core, if available (which is probably an OS feature used by pthreads).
My questions were quite general to begin with, since most of these things are implementation specific, it's hard to give one answer. I hope this answer is detailed enough to help you clarify a few things.
Cheers, Val
Generally each modern OS supports Threads by itself and schedules them to the different (virtual) Cores of a System. The OS provides some general synchronization techniques (like Mutexes or Semaphores or Barriers) which are used by pthread to implement the pthreads API.
With two threads per Core (I think you mean Hyper Threading) on some Intel Processors (like Itanium) the OS sees two "virtual" Cores. The processor indeed schedules the two threads onto one physical core. (See Wikipedia)
However, there are examples where Runtime-Plattforms implement their own Thread-Conceptepts and do the scheduling: I think of (at least older) implementations of Java having their own scheduling routines.
I completely newbie in device drivers, so I hope my question is in place, but I need to develop a driver to control some equipment. I was thinking on using Linux as the host OS, but not sure if it is such good idea. I've heard some horror stories about the mess of developing device drivers under Linux. Is there a better alternative under the *Nix world? Or maybe should I check other OSes?
Linux documentation is basically non-existent (similar to other platforms). However, there are a few books which do cover enough information to get started, and the trickier kernel bits can borrowed from other drivers (yay for Open Source).
However, it is one of the easiest current platforms to develop drivers for. There are cleaner models, such as QNX, but that product is sadly near the end (and doesn't support 1/10th as much as hardware as Linux)
What type of device is the driver targetting? Many times you can avoid writing in-kernel drivers (for instance, using libusb in userspace, or the user space IO framework)