i have been lately read some articles about BreezeJS. But till now i can't get my head around it.
What exactly BreezeJS is used for in details with examples not just words?
Can i use it in asp.net WebForms(most of tutorials target MVC projects), and if so how can i use it ?
Is there any concerns i need to take in consideration before i use it ?
I'm going to break your first question into two pieces:
Do you want to build a JavaScript / Single Page Application?
If you want a cross-platform application with a more fluid user experience, or have a need for offline operation, then Single Page Applications may be a good fit for you.
Why should I use Breeze in a Single Page Application? Can you cite examples?
John Papa has a great post about this that includes a few examples:
http://www.johnpapa.net/spajs04
You can use WebForms, MVC, or any number of other technologies to build a Single Page Application. For ASP.NET, people typically use MVC4 though. Here is StackOverflow post on that topic that might help:
webforms vs asp.net mvc for single page application - which to choose?
Related
I just saw this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs8-l2Uo1cQ
And i got cuple of questions. I am about to develop quite a complex web site with alot of reporting data(like diagrams) and more, before i saw this video i was certanly sure that i am going to use MVC 4 forms authentication solution. But right now i am conserned. Is singel Page application suitebale for complex solution? or is it only suitable for simple portfolio websites?
No hate, its probably a stupid and obviouse answer to this question, but i am new to SPA
Yes. ASP.NET MVC 4 suitable for complex single-page solutions. I personally have used it when building large financial applications.
You might also want to check out Web API (which comes bundled as part of ASP.NET MVC 4) which is even better suited for single-page applications.
I always used asp.net webforms with the MVP pattern, it works great for what I need, I basically create a project where all my business rules reside, validation etc... and I then implement my views in the webforms project.
Now we're starting to use asp.net MVC and using the MVP patter doesn't make much sense, right? So what could be a good approach to create a scalable and testable project using MVC that won't make me create my data objects and do validation on the controllers. I don' want to have the same code in different places...
If a web user wants to update his/her profile on the site, there would be some validation rules for when a submit button is pushed, like email address cannot be empty, must be valid and must not exist in the database.
These same rules should be applied if I try to update his profile using the internal admin section without having to duplicate the code there...
If you can point me to a good sample project that deals with this would be great!
Thanks in advance!
You should use the MVC pattern with ASP.Net MVC.
The NerdDinner tutorial is a pretty detailed example for MVC, you can also get a book that includes the tutorial (you might want to wait for the version that covers ASP.Net MVC 3). There are plenty of resources on Microsoft's ASP.Net site.
You can always consult Google.
ASP .NET MVC was built with the Model-View-Controller (MVC) pattern in mind. That would be the pattern you'd want to use.
In addition to the resources magnifico provided, I know others have recommended the some other tutorials. I don't know if these have been updated to the latest version of the framework, but they should still serve as decent beginners.
MVC Storefront series
MVC Music Store
Also the Microsoft Patterns & Practices group recently released Project Silk which gets into more advanced techniques involving a lot of AJAX management of the UI. There's interesting stuff there.
I've tried a few google searches and stack over flow searches, but this is proving hard to find than I thought. I need to provide justification to management for our shop to move to ASP.NET MVC 2. The biggest help would be any enterprise level sites or major web development shops that are using ASP.NET MVC 1/2.
Does anyone have a list or link?
I know Stackoverflow uses it, but some stats such as daily views would help too. I found the Jwaala case study here: http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/case_study_detail.aspx?casestudyid=4000006675 . Aside from that, I'm having some issues finding some professional examples.
Thanks in advance!
Just found a few more case studies:
http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Search_Results.aspx?Type=1&Keywords=mvc&LangID=46#top
Could still use more links.
If your management requires a "...but THEY're doing it!!!" justification then you have larger problems.
If you're using the "...but THEY're doing it!!!" justification then you'll likely need much better reasons.
Hate to troll, but just saying that you'll want objective and project-specific reasoning. And if by "management" you mean business-management, then they need to understand that engineering details are best left up to engineering. The Art of War by Sun Tzu is full of advice along these lines.
...and to qualify this, I'm a web-developer working on a partial rewrite of a WebForms app. I'd love to be using MVC for this project, but the actual benefit of doing so doesn't match the cost--business is business after all, and the business-case must be considered.
If you do get stuck with WebForms then you can whip it into shape (what we're doing). With ASP.NET 4.0 (or a little inheritance trickery) you can get rid of the ID renaming; by building ViewModels, domain-objects, and clean Repositories you can avoid a lot of the cruft of WebForms--we have tight, explicit control over what WebForms generates. We've shrunk the actual content of our ASPX pages and their codebehinds by at least an order of magnitude by applying best practices.
Just remember, the tools won't make you a better developer, and unless you know what you're doing or what you're working with then you won't reap the benefits.
Dell is rebuilding its page from ASP.NET Webforms into ASP.NET MVC as Phil Haack is mentioned this on his blog ;)
I can not say if they use MVC 1 or MVC 2.
It seems that MarketWatch use ASP.NET MVC with Spark View Engine as listed here :
http://sparkviewengine.com/spark-in-the-field
http://www.marketwatch.com/
also an e-commerce webiste :
http://www.fancydressoutfitters.co.uk/
Check our sites www.reifen.com and www.bonspneus.fr. They handle pretty big traffic in germany and france.
We have used ASP.NET MVC 1 on these sites and still use (and enjoy) ASP.NET on other sites. Like others said: don't just go with ASP.NET MVC because it is in some way better. It is not. There is allways a situation where I would prefer one or the other.
Additional "live" ASP.NET MVC sites (some broken links)
http://weblogs.asp.net/mikebosch/archive/2008/05/05/gallery-of-live-asp-net-mvc-sites.aspx
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I am trying to teach ASP.NET MVC to students (undergrads) that have been studying ASP.NET for the last 8 weeks (I know that doesn't sound like much time, but the class is 4 hours per day, 5 days per week with Labs, Quizzes, Exams, and Wrestles).
I haven't gotten the question yet...but I know it is coming...
When would I use MVC instead of ASP??
I don't have any real experience with ASP MVC and I can't find any sort of clear-cut answer on the web. Arguments such as "...the web is stateless and ASP MVC is a closer match etc etc" do not mean much to them. They are starting to notice that ASP has lots of controls that seem to simplify their markup compared to MVC.
I'm trying to give an honest spin, and any feedback would be much appreciated!
TIA
Statelessness is a good one word to explain as already highlighted by the members.
Apart from this ask the following questions to the students?
If they have to do the following with ASP.NET (no MVC), how easy will it be?
Test your views
Mock Http objects.
Viewstate reduction (by design)(
Substitute lightweight viewengine for .aspx.
Thorough separation of concerns.
Clean HTML
etc. etc..
Now explain asp.net mvc in the above context. There may be more to it.
Atleast I think they will get the point, thought this may not be applicable to all project, but what's the harm if we are only gaining from this.
To me, the MVC approach is a very different paradigm from the ASP Forms API. I think the idea of being "stateless" is a good way to explain a very broad topic in one word actually.
One of the major advantages that I've seen is that the MVC framework gives a lot of control over the design and the output of your page. For small projects, this may not be the best use of it, but for large projects, it scales very well because you can make different architectural choices that (personally) I find to be better, such as the way that the MVC framework separates logic from the view.
Also, if you're designing a site that has a lot of Javascript, the control you gain over output in the MVC framework can be very helpful because you don't have to worry so much about how IDs and other markup may be rendered, like you typically do in the ASP Forms framework.
The MVC framework is really a totally different way to design web sites. Personally, I think it is more beneficial for large projects, but I also started out in web languages where MVC was a more popular design choice to begin with.
That's just my 2 cents.
I always thought the ASP.NET MVC Framework was a bad name since its a Design Pattern.
The question should be :
When would I use ASP.NET MVC Framework over ASP.NET Web forms?
The Developer Experience
a) ASP.NET Web Forms tries to abstract away the stateless nature of HTTP from the developer. The state of GUI Elements, and or data is stored in the Viewstate/Session. Everyone Form does a postback to itself, basically mimicking the behavior of a WinForm event driven design.
b) HTML GUI Elements are further abstracted by Controls which can be re-used, bought from 3rd party vendors. This helps developers glue an HTML app together without to much JavaScript and HTML/HTTP Knowledge. Basically similar to the way you would develop VB / WinForms
c) You can do a good job implementing the MVC/MVP pattern in ASP.NET webforms. Look at the Patterns and Practices Web Client software factory to see how they did it.
d) Developing using WebForms you are generally changing the HTML (View) based on user feedback at the server. Most events (user clicks a button, edits a field) are handled at the server in a continuous postback loop executing whats called the ASP.NET Page Lifecycle.
VS
Browser controlled view (dont know what else to call it). All changes to the HTML based on user input is handled in the browser. You will be manipulating the DOM with Javascript.
Note: I basing this on the fact that ASP.NET MVC is most likely driven by basic HTML + Ajax
How I would personally choose between them (never having used MVC, just reading on it)
1) If I was to build a pure stateless front end using Ajax, Jquery, EXT JS type libraries ASP.NET MVC would seem the better fit. Although you could build this in ASP.NET Webforms it seems pointless since you not taking advantage of the Postback model and Server Controls.
2) If I were asked to build a new basic web application, I would stick with ASP.NET Webforms since i'm already familiar with it and know the whole page lifecylce.
3) If I were asked to build a Web 2.0 (hate that term) to have a next gen User Experience, I would probably go with ASP.NET MVC, and use JQuery / ASP.NET Ajax client controls.
4) Many companies have built up a solid set of WebForm controls to use. It would be costly to rebuild them all in a pure stateless ajaxy way :)
For someone with experience (and pains) in Winforms - the biggest difference is no more Viewstate. The state of controls on the form is kept on the client, in the browser and sent to the server for each request.
If you use Javascript, it is easier to make changes on the browser side, while the server side gets an easy way to look at the form as a whole without having to recreate controls binding.
Beyond all the nice things MVC provides - separation of view/code, testability - this was for me the key point to move to MVC.
Apart from all the other excellent responses already listed. Webforms is an abstraction away from HTML.
When you want a html table of data, you put a "gridview" control on a page - what you end up with is "gridview" html, and quite possibly not exactly what you were after.
The shoe fits 90% of the time, but a lot of the time, especially when things move beyond a basic site that the controls don't fit. Using Webforms often means that you don't have full control over the final output that is rendered to the browser.
You can of course extend, or write your own grid control. But wouldn't you just prefer to write the html you want instead?
It's my experience that has the projects get more complex, and UI's get more complicated that you end up fighting webforms more and more often.
http://www.emadibrahim.com/2008/09/07/deciding-between-aspnet-mvc-and-webforms/
I've noticed a lot of talk about asp.net MVC lately, but I haven't come across a clear or compelling description of when, where or why I would want to use it over WebForms.
Let's say I wanted to build a small web application that allows a person to advertise some items online. The website will have 4 use cases:
Search adverts
View listings
View item
Place an advert
Let's assume:
I'm not particularly interested in unit testing my controller. The page will either render the list of items correctly, or it won't.
I am interested in more control over the HTML markup.
I'm not interested in using the latest buzz technology just for the sake of it.
I am interested in using the tool that is best suited to the job in terms of productivity, performance, maintainability & simplicity of the end solution.
I don't want to have to work around a bunch of nuances to get something simple to work.
So, my questions are thus:
What are the fundamental differences between the two models?
In which scenario is one better than the other?
What are the gotchas with asp.net MVC (I'm aware of the gotchas with WebForms)
For our sample app, what would I gain by using asp.net MVC instead of WebForms?
For our sample app, what would I lose by using asp.net MVC instead of WebForms?
Is it feasible to mix and match models within the same small application?
Thanks to anyone who spends the time to contribute an answer.
What are the fundamental differences between the two models?
WebForms try to mimic WinForms development by allowing you to reuse lots of pre-made controls, and by faking web application state via the hidden _VIEWSTATE mechanism.
MVC is a pattern designed to help you separate your data (Model), business logic (Controller) and presentation (View). It adheres more to the true nature of the web : RESTful URLs, stateless.
In which scenario is one better than the other?
In my opinion, for an intranet application making heavy usage of controls, WebForms can be useful at reducing development time, because thanks to the designer you can create your UI very quickly and let the framework manage the app's state automatically.
For any other project, especially a public website, even a small one, I think MVC is the way to go.
What are the gotchas with asp.net MVC (I'm aware of the gotchas with
WebForms)
I'd say there is some learning curve to fully understand the MVC pattern and its power. Also, since the framework is still in BETA you can expect the API to experience some minor changes before release.
Since JavaScript is not hidden from you in MVC, it would also require some time to learn if you're not familiar with it. jQuery greatly simplifies this though.
For our sample app, what would I gain by using asp.net MVC instead of
WebForms?
You'd gain better control over HTML markup and Javascript behavior, a cleaner separation of concerns and some easily testable codebase (even if you don't seem interested in unit testing it).
For our sample app, what would I lose by using asp.net MVC instead of
WebForms?
You'd lose the 'drag and drop' quick way of building your pages and the application state management.
Is it feasible to mix and match models within the same small
application?
In some ways, yes it seems.
I'd recommend watching this talk by Phil Haack, who gives a good overview of the framework and invites Jeff Atwood to talk about how he built StackOverflow with it.
He explains how SO is using some WebForms controls for CAPTCHAs which render themselves into the view.
The primary difference is that MVC is more like "regular" web development that the rest of the programming world uses, whereas standard ASP.NET was designed to make it brain-dead easy for Windows developers to become web developers. I learned web programming by learning Ruby on Rails, and MVC seems like it is becoming the .NET version of Rails.
MVC is much more oriented around standards compliance, unobtrusive javascript, and separation of concerns than regular ASP.NET. You'll need to understand how HTML and CSS work together. You'll learn a LOT more javascript as you master MVC. One of the biggest advantages of MVC to me is that you can use jQuery to do some amazing AJAX stuff easier and BETTER than you can in regular ASP.NET.
If you're just now learning web development then I strongly encourage you to learn MVC. You'll be able to transfer at least some of your new skills to other frameworks in the future.
If you're looking for which to learn to quickly get a web development job, then I'll have to strongly suggest ASP.NET.
Once MVC is RTM'd I think we will see a slow and steady adoption curve and as it matures MVC may become the primary framework for creating websites with ASP.NET. I hope so at least!
The biggest difference between ASPNET MVC and is WebForms is the lifecycle of an page, no difficult(unnecessary) postbacks, clean coding, enz.
There are no rules for that
???
REST-full website, Separation of logic
Design-time support, can't use third-party webcontrols
Please don't mix it together. If you really want to use the WebForms model you could use the MVP pattern, Billy McCafferty wrote exellent articles on that design pattern
I'm redesigning some of my applications from the MVP-pattern to MVC-pattern, not because MVC is better but I would like to use the newest techniques offered by MS(pattern itself is quite old).