I saw the presentation at the High-Perf Graphics "High-Performance Software Rasterization on GPUs" and I was very impressed of the work/analysis/comparison..
http://www.highperformancegraphics.org/previous/www_2011/media/Papers/HPG2011_Papers_Laine.pdf
http://research.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/publications/laine2011hpg_paper.pdf
My background was Cuda, then I started learning OpenGL two years ago to develop the 3d interface of EMM-Check, a field-of-view-analyze program to check if a vehicle is going to fulfill a specific standard or not. essentially you load a vehicle (or different parts), then you can move it completely or separately, add mirrors/cameras, analyze the point of view and shadows for the point of view of the driver, etc..
We are dealing with some transparent elements (mainly the field of views, but also vehicle themselves might be), therefore I wrote some rough algorithm to sort on fly the elements to be rendered (at primitive level, a kind of Painter's algorithm) but of course there are cases in which it easily fails, although for most of cases is enough..
For this reason I started googling, I found many techniques, like (dual) depth peeling, A/R/K/F-buffer, ecc ecc
But it looks like all of them suffer at high resolution and/or large number of triangles..
Since we also deal with millions of triangles (up to 10 more or less), I was looking for something else and I ended up to software renderers, compared to the hw ones, they offer free programmability but they are slower..
So I wonder if it might be possible to implement something hybrid, that is using the hardware renderer for the opaque elements and the software one (cuda/opencl) for the transparent elements and then combining the two results..
Or maybe a simple (no complex visual effect required, just position, color, simple light and properly transparency) ray-tracing algorithm in cuda/opencl might be much simpler from this point of view and give us also a lot of freedom/flexibility in the future?
I did not find anything on the net regarding this... maybe is there any particular obstacle?
I would like to know every single think/tips/idea/suggestion that you have regarding this
Ps: I also found "Single Pass Depth Peeling via CUDA Rasterizer" by Liu, but the solution from the first paper seems fair faster
http://webstaff.itn.liu.se/~jonun/web/teaching/2009-TNCG13/Siggraph09/content/talks/062-liu.pdf
I might suggest that you look at OpenRL, which will let you have hardware-accelerated raytracing?
Related
I am a mathematician and not a programmer, I have a notion on the basics of programming and am a quite advanced power-user both in linux and windows.
I know some C and some python but nothing much.
I would like to make an overlay so that when I start a game it can get info about amd and nvidia GPUs like frame time and FPS because I am quite certain the current system benchmarks use to compare two GPUs is flawed because small instances and scenes that bump up the FPS momentarily (but are totally irrelevant in terms of user experience) result in a higher average FPS number and mislead the market either unintentionally or intentionally (for example, I cant remember the name of the game probably COD there was a highly tessellated entity on the map that wasnt even visible to the player which lead AMD GPUs to seemingly under perform when roaming though that area leading to lower average FPS count)
I have an idea on how to calculate GPU performance in theory but I dont know how to harvest the data from the GPU, Could you refer me to api manuals or references to help me making such an overlay possible?
I would like to study as little as possible (by that I mean I would like to learn what I absolutely have to learn in order to get the job done I dont intent to become a coder).
I thank you in advance.
It is generally what the Vulkan Layer system is for, which allows to intercept API commands and inject your own. But it is nontrivial to code it yourself. Here are some pre-existing open-source options for you:
To get to timing info and draw your custom overlay you can use (and modify) a tool like OCAT. It supports Direct3D 11, Direct3D 12, and Vulkan apps.
To just get the timing (and other interesting info) as CSV you can use a command-line tool like PresentMon. Should work in D3D, and I have been using it with Vulkan apps too and it seems to accept them.
I am looking for the best tool to achieve something like this (this is Blender's game engine, no real reflections, etc.) in an webgl viewer.
http://youtu.be/9-n12ZH5O6k
The idea is to prepare several basic scenes like this and then for the user to upload his design and have it previewed on a car (or other far more basic objects).
While p3d is nice, I don't think it does the job. There's no API for these cases yet. What are some options to pull this off? The requirement would be to have a library that doesn't have a too large footprint, since the feature/product is planned for the Asian market, so internet speed has to be considered.
you should look into three.js/babylon.js maybe? But you surely won't achieve that app just by a fingersnap, so read the tutorials as well, but these libs will surely ease your task by much.
Context
I am building this multiplayer D&D encounter tool (in C# for WinRT) which is a simple 2D grid based utility where each player can control their character with the DM being able to control the whole environment as well as mobs etc. I decided to use DirectX (through the SharpDX wrapper) as opposed to standard XAML elements (which would probably handle this scenario too) mainly to learn DirectX and possibly to achieve better performance on lower spec PCs (not sure how XAML would handle thousands of sprites on the screen).
Question
Since I am new to DirectX I was wondering what is the best* way to draw the sprites (characters, props, background tiles, etc)?
*By best I mean in terms of performance and GPU memory requirements. My aim is to have this tool to run well even on low spec ARM tablets and I have no idea how demanding each approach is.
Currently I am using the Direct2D BitmapSourceEffect and load each sprite batch using the WIC API. Another approach which I also encountered in various DirectX books is described in this SO question: What is the best pratice[sic] to render sprites in DirectX 11?
Using the BitmapSourceEffect seems to be easier but is it the right tool to do the job? I plan to compare the two approaches later today (in terms of FPS, rendering a large number of sprites), but perhaps you guys can provide more insight into this matter. Thanks!
Our software produces a lot of data that is georeferenced and recorded over time. We are considering ways to improve the visualisation, and showing the (processed) data in a 3D view, given it's georeferenced, seems a good idea.
I am looking for SO's recommendations for what 3D libraries are best to use as a base when building these kind of visualisations in a Delphi- / C++Builder-based Windows application. I'll add a bounty when I can.
The data
Is recorded over time (hours to days) and is GPS-tagged. So, we have a lot of data following a path over time.
Is spatial: it represents real 3D elements of the earth, such as the land, or 3D elements of objects around the earth.
Is high volume: we could have a point cloud, say, of hundreds of thousands to millions of points. Processed data may display as surfaces created from these point clouds.
From that, you can see that an interactive, spatially-based 3D visualisation seems a good approach. I'm envisaging something where you can easily and quickly navigate around in space, and data will load or be generated on the fly depending on what you're looking at. I would prefer we don't try to write our own 3D library from scratch - for something like this, there have to be good existing libraries we can work from.
So, I'm hoping for a library which supports:
good navigation (is the library based on Euler rotations only, for example? Can you 'pick' objects to rotate around or move with easily?);
modern GPUs (shader-only rendering is ok; being able to hook into the pipeline to write shaders that map values to colours and change dynamically would be great - think data values given a colour through a colour lookup table);
dynamic data / objects (data can be added as it's recorded; and if the data volume is too high, we should be able to page things in and out or recreate them, and only show a sensible subset so that whatever the user's viewport is looking at is there onscreen, but other data can be loaded/regenerated, preferably asynchronously, or at least quickly as the user navigates. Obviously data creation is dependent on us, but a library that has hooks for this kind of thing would be great.)
and technologically, works with Delphi / C++Builder and the VCL.
Libraries
There are two main libraries I've considered so far - I'm looking for knowledgeable opinions about these, or for other libraries I haven't considered.
1. FireMonkey
This is Embarcadero's new UI library, which is only available in XE2 and above. Our app is based on the VCL and we'd want to host this in a VCL window; that seems to be officially unsupported but unofficially works fine, or is available through third-parties.
The mix of UI framework and 3D framework with shaders etc sounds great. But I don't know how complex the library is, what support it has for data that's not a simple object like a cube or sphere, and how well-designed it is. That last link has major criticisms of the 3D side of the library - severe enough I am not sure it's worthwhile in its current state at the time of writing for a non-trivial 3D app.
Is it worth trying to write a new visualisation window in our VCL app using FireMonkey?
2. GLScene
GLScene is a well-known 3D OpenGL framework for Delphi. I have never used it myself so have no experience about how it works or is designed. However, I believe it integrates well into VCL windows and supports shaders and modern GPUs. I do not know how its scene graph or navigation work or how well dynamic data can be implemented.
Its feature list specifically mentions some things I'm interested in, such as easy rotation/movement, procedural objects (implying dynamic data is easy to implement), and helper functions for picking. It seems shaders are Cg only (not GLSL or another non-vendor-specific language.) It also supports "polymorphic image support for texturing (allows many formats as well as procedural textures), easily extendable" - that may just mean many image formats, or it may indicate something where the texture can be dynamically changed, such as for dynamic colour mapping.
Where to from here?
These are the only two major 3D libraries I know of for Delphi or C++Builder. Have I missed any? Are there pros and cons I'm not aware of? Do you have any experience using either of these for this kind of purpose, and what pitfalls should we be wary of or features should we know about and use?
We currently use Embarcadero RAD Studio 2010 and most of our software is written in C++. We have small amounts of Delphi and may consider upgrading IDEs, but we are most likely to wait until the 64-bit C++ compiler is released. For that reason, a library that works in RS2010 might be best.
Thanks for your input :) I'm after high-quality answers, so I'll add a bounty when I can!
I have used GLScene in my 3D geomapping software and although it's not used to an extent you're looking for I can vouch that it seems the most appropriate for what you're trying to do.
GLScene supports terrain rendering and adding customizable objects to the scene. Objects can be interacted with and you can create complex 3D models of objects using the various building blocks of GLScene.
Unfortunately I cannot state how it will work with millions of points, but I do know that it is quite optimized and performs great on minimal hardware - that being said - the target PC I found required a dedicated graphics card capable of using OpenGL 2.1 extensions or higher (I found small issues with integrated graphics cards).
The other library I looked at was DXscene - which appears quite similar to GLScene albeit using DirectX instead of OpenGL. From memory this was a commercial product where GLScene was licensed under GPL. (EDIT - the page seems to be down at the moment : http://www.ksdev.com/index.html)
GLScene is still in active development and provides a fairly comprehensive library of functions, base objects and texturing etc. Things like rotation, translation, pitch, roll, turn, ray casting - to name a few - are all provided for you. Visibility culling is provided for each base object as well as viewing cameras, lighting and meshes. Base objects include cubes, spheres, pipes, tetrahedrons, cones, terrain, grids, 3d text, arrows to name a few.
Objects can be picked with the mouse and moved along 1,2 or 3 axes. Helper functions are included to automatically calculate the top-most object the mouse is under. Complex 3D shapes can be built by attaching base objects to other base objects in a hierarchical manner. So, for example, a car could be built using a rectangle as the base object and attaching four cylinders to it for the wheels - then you can manipulate the 'car' as a whole - since the four cylinders are attached to the base rectangle.
The only downside I could bring to your attention is the sometimes limited help/support available to you. Yes, there is a reference manual and a number of demo applications to show you how to do things such as select objects and move them around, however the reference manual is not complete and there is potential to get 'stuck' on how to accomplish a certain task. Forum support is somewhat limited/sparse. If you have a sound knowledge of 3D basics and concepts I'm sure you could nut it out.
As for Firemonkey - I have had no experience with this so I can't comment. I believe this is more targeted at mobile applications with lower hardware requirements so you may have issues with larger data sets.
Here are some other links that you may consider - I have no experience with them:
http://www.truevision3d.com/
http://www.3impact.com/
Game Development in Delphi
The last one is targeted at game development - but may provide useful information.
Have you tried glData? http://gldata.sourceforge.net/
It is old (~2004, Delphi 7), and I have not personally used the library, but some of the output is amazing.
you can use the GLScene or OpenGL they are good 3D rendering and its very easy to use.
Since you are already using georeferenced data, maybe you should consider embedding GoogleEarth in your Delphi application like this? Then you can add data to it as points, paths, or objects.
I want to do projects to make my resume more appealing to game companies. So I am going to start buying books. But I don't know rather to read DirectX 9 or 10 api books to start off with. DirectX10 is great, but it seems the industry is moving slow to 10. so should I use 9 or go with 10 ??
I would suggest learning the basics using directx9 and then rapidly moving on to dx11. DirectX11 is harder to get started in than DirectX9 because it's slightly more complex but also a lot of the utility functions in D3DX are no longer there, or have been moved to source code like the effects framework. This is no bad thing, but it does make it signifiacantly more complex to learn as you have to learn a lot more things at once.
Spend 2 or 3 weeks learning DX9 then move to DX11 for "real" work :P
Learn basic DX9 using the fixed pipeline and d3dx for loading models etc. It's a lot simpler than DX11 and much better documented, and you'll get a triangle and then a model on screen very much faster. Play with that until you completely understand the basic concepts and tranformations.
But then rewrite it all using shaders only. You'll need to use them in DX10/11 anyway but it's a lot easier to learn when you already have a working framework of code, and it's a lot simpler to get that working in DX9.
Once you have that working, learn DX11. You'll have to switch math libraries. You'll have to invent your own model formats and loaders. You'll have to either invent your own effects framework or use the example one, but they are all much easier now you already know the basics of 3d and programming shaders.
TBH further to OneOfOne's comment if you know how to do 3D development in GL, D3D9, D3D10 or D3D11 then you can transfer those skills to any of the others with a little bit of work.
Personally I'd aim for D3D11 as that way you are learning the cutting edge. You'll find you'll be able to do GL, D3D9 or D3D10 with a little work. Do enough work on the theory and you'll discover that its not even that hard to transfer the skills to a fully software engine.
If your intention is really to learn a skill that you would use in the game industry, stick with DirectX 9. Since DirectX 10 and 11 both require Vista or Window 7, game developers are still mostly ignoring them and targeting DirectX 9 in order to have support for Windows XP.
That being said, it doesn't really matter which you start with. The differences are not that large. If you understand the concepts behind 3D APIs and how the GPU pipeline works, you can pick up any of the three or even OpenGL with minimal effort.
Fact is, you need to learn both.
As long as 50% of gamers are still on WinXP, you're going to need to be able to program in Direct3D9.
D3D9 isn't any easier to get started with than D3D10/11. Its the same principles, with vertices to be placed, normals to be calculated, and meshes to be rendered. Whether you're creating a ID3D11BlendState structure or calling IDirect3DDevice9::SetRenderState(), its the same concept, just different ways of doing it.
After working with d3d11 a couple of days, I've come to think of it as better than DX9 in a lot of ways. For one, you're able to use the full caps of the GPU including geometry shaders. 2nd, it forces you to fully understand the graphics pipeline to even draw anything (note how functions are named after the stage of the pipeline they affect: here: (IA* fcns: input-assembler stage, OM* fcns: output-merger stage etc) ). This may result in a slightly larger INITIAL startup curve, but once you get it, its not any harder than D3D9 and is better, since the very naming of the functions helps concepts stick.
So get going on both, and learning them in tandem may help reduce the amount of effort you spend learning deprecated API's/methods of doing things from DX9 (ie you really want to spend more time using shaders, and don't use the fixed function pipeline section of DX9 too much).
You can check Luna's books for DX9 /DX11(I suggest you start with 11). You can check out http://www.rastertek.com/tutdx11.html but he doesn't explain everything so you can go in Luna s book to see what is with those functions or properties
With some little exceptions, DX10 is just a legacy free DX9. For example DX9 had build in options for rendering Flatshaded, Textured or using a Shader. In DX10 these options are gone, you always have to use a real shader. If you want to do flatshading, write a HLSL shader that does flat shading.
So I would suggest you learn DX10 (or DX11). You will be able to adopt fast to DX9 but with a more modern coding style by not using legacy functions. They can be quiet confusing, so DX10 will focus you on relevant things.
If you are a real beginner, and setting up a vertex-buffer to create a single triangle is confusing you (as real 3D-Programmer you are no more interesten in single triangles) I even would suggest to start with OpenGL. You will have faster success, but in reality this can be a little bit distracting as DX9-Legacy if you want to focus on modern 3D-Coding.
Yes do not waste your time with DX10 it was never really adopted as the industry standard for any period of time, there wasn't any big enough changes to warrant people upgrading from DX9 but for DX11 there was.
I suggest directx 11, there's no reason in my opinion to waste time on deprecated functions or techniques.
Learning shaders from the start will make things way more clear
Try doing the samples from the sample folder of both 9 and 10, and if your computer can support it, 11. This is what I am doing.