Up to now I've always used PHP with or without a framework but a month ago I decided to start something new: Ruby and Rails, I found them quite easy and similar to PHP and some PHP frameworks in how they works but using a simpler syntax and many other advantages.
Some days ago I started reading about Node.js, Node.js vs Rails, "why node.js is better"...
I'm a bit confused but my objective is to learn something modern that will not become obsolete in a few months so:
What are the main differences between Rails/Ruby and Node.js and a framework based on it like Express.js (except that one is written in JS and the other in Ruby)?
What are the main advantages/disadvantages of using Node.js and framework based on it instead of a Ruby based solution like Rails?
Thanks!
There aren't enough differences between Node.js and Rails for it to practically matter.
A lot of what Node.js can do can be pulled off in Rails with things like EventMachine and Pusher. So unless you are really familiar with Rails' limitations, and know you'll be pushing the boundaries, you'd be hard pressed to make something a seasoned Rails developer couldn't do.
Having built apps in Node and Express I can say that they alone aren't enough to make a sexy application. They can seem just as old and stale if you don't have an outstanding frontend UI to facilitate the backend possibilities. Instead of comparing backend servers, I think the real future of doing amazing things is in front-end JavaScript frameworks like Backbone.js that use Express/Rails/Node.js on the backend.
I have chosen to go in the direction of Backbone.js with Rails as my backend API server. Because it's so easy to rapidly create a very nice RESTful backend server in Rails. Rails also makes working with CoffeeScript and precompiling/organizing Backbone code a breeze. There are already decent Backbone.js gems out there for Rails.
The Rails core is also able to acknowledge and embrace the fact that frontend JS MVCs are logically a good next step, and they have been working to strengthen the bond between the two. For those same reasons they have also worked to make Rails an even better API server so that it can work with frontend JS easier. Node.js and Express aren't putting as much effort to coordinate with frontend JavaScript MVCs as the Rails community is.
Being good with a JavaScript frontend MVC and Rails as a backend makes you also great for both worlds in terms of getting a job. You will easily be able to hop onto a Node.js project and add value to that team with your superior frontend experience, and you can also roll with the punches on a Ruby on Rails team and add value to them as well.
As official Node.js website explains it:
Node.js is a platform built on Chrome's JavaScript runtime for easily building fast, scalable network applications. Node.js uses an event-driven, non-blocking I/O model that makes it lightweight and efficient, perfect for data-intensive real-time applications that run across distributed devices.
On the other hand Ruby on Rails official website says:
Ruby on Rails is an open-source web framework that's optimized for programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration.
Given this I guess that it is more appropriate to compare Ruby and Node.js, but even this is not quite right given that Ruby is programming language and Node.js is NOT. You could probably compare JavaScript with Ruby but I guess that is not what you meant to ask with this question :)
So, for me, key point in understanding what Node.js truly tries to accomplish is well described on Node.js about page. Key Node.js idea (for me) is described in this sentences:
Node is similar in design to and influenced by systems like Ruby's Event Machine or Python's Twisted. Node takes the event model a bit further—it presents the event loop as a language construct instead of as a library. In other systems there is always a blocking call to start the event-loop. Typically one defines behavior through callbacks at the beginning of a script and at the end starts a server through a blocking call like EventMachine::run(). In Node there is no such start-the-event-loop call. Node simply enters the event loop after executing the input script. Node exits the event loop when there are no more callbacks to perform. This behavior is like browser javascript—the event loop is hidden from the user.
What this should enable you, is that you should be able to easily write highly concurrent programs without even thinking about concurrency using JavaScript syntax and callback functions as basic concurrent runnable units.
Your fear that either Rails or Node.js will be gone in a week is unfounded. Rails has a large community and will be around for a very long time even though currently (early 2012) it's getting a bit of hate thrown its way. Node.js is just getting started and has so much attention I don't think it will have any problems getting to the Rails level some day.
That said I've been evaluating Node.js and Rails as options for a project and the reasons I choose Node.js over Rails are:
"The Rails Way" - In my (admittedly limited) experience with Rails it really seems like you either do it the Rails way or you are going to be in for a world of pain. A big part of the Rails way is to use the ActiveRecord model. The advantage of this is that there are a lot of gems that work with your code happily because they know you'll be using ActiveRecord. The disadvantage is you are mixing your data access & model. I am not a fan of this idea so the Rails way for me still seems a bit.. off.
JavaScript is a key part of client side web development and the idea of using it on the client and server is interesting. I'm not super strong at JavaScript and I can't imagine a better way to get better then to have to use it everywhere.
My project has real time communication needs which while I'm sure can be done in Rails there seems to be quite a bit of positive mention on Nodes ability to handle this with socket.io being the front runner option.
At the end of the day no matter which you choose you will have a great time & learn a ton of new stuff that will change how you write code. If you're not on a big time crunch I'd recommend building a small project management tool in both and see which you prefer.
Either way.. Good Luck!
2 things - performance & productivity.
Performance (more details here)
(source: jslang.info)
Productivity (how fast you can build that app)
Ruby on Rails is specialized and highly productive tool for creating so called Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 applications (99% of internet sites are such apps). In my subjective judgement and experience in this area Rails about 2-4 times more productive than node.js or express.js.
For Web 3.0 apps (realtime things, client-side MVC, etc.) this isn't true, RoR doesn't keep its advantage there.
So choice depends on use case and priorities.
I know a lot more about Node.js than I do about Ruby. That being said, Ruby is much more widely adopted. It is currently a very hot skill to have in the work place. Some may argue with me on this but I think that Node.js is still "under development" and will be for a little bit longer. It has a lot of promise but just hasn't been adopted by many companies and projects yet.
Related
soliciting advice about upgrading (or re-writing?) a legacy app. It's a single page webapp with lots of dynamically generated windows and forms, roughly comprised of
13,000 lines in .rb files
11,000 lines in .erb files
25,000 lines of javascript (not including large 3rd party libraries that bring this to nearer 60000 lines)
This acts as a UI for end users of our system, which also has a number of core business services (mostly written in Java, with a small amount of Node.js) and a fairly sizeable MySQL database (>200GB). Some of these services push AJAX to the client browser for real-time updates.
Reasons for upgrade
It's ruby 1.8.7, rails 2.3.15. Most of the core code dates from 2009. This makes it both insecure and hard to maintain (think "predates the existence of gemfiles".)
The app has been maintained by Java devs for most of its life, as most of the company's devs have been hired as Java devs to work on all the other services that perform business logic. It's probably safe to assume that this has lead to lots of hacks from people who didn't want to break anything, and certainly lots will not be done in a "rails way".
The javascript is also a bit of a mess. It's got a knot of frameworks (the original Angular is used sporadically; jquery and prototype are both fighting over the $ symbol in different places.) There are files that are 7000 lines long.
the css styling has been upgraded since 2009(!) but is starting to look a little tired. We'd like to implement a bootstrap theme that will look sharp without too much front-end skill, but right now the code that renders all of our pop-up windows, sidebars etc breaks badly if we try and add bootstrap.
It would be nice to modernise our push servers, replacing them with websockets.
Context
There are 3 of us on the dev team- this is my first job, and I've only been here since January. Of the other two, one has only been here about 4 months longer than me, and it's his first dev job too. The other guy is the only one who has ever spoken to someone who spoke to someone from the original team.
Oh, and of course we have little or no test coverage.
Options
When I was hired (as a Java developer), I was told that we were looking to replace the website with one based on Spring MVC. This effort is partially underway, having been attacked in drips and drabs over a couple of years. Because different devs who never met have attacked it as if it's their own brand new project, the same problems are solved in different ways in different places. They've tried some flashy techniques such as custom annotations that I find hard to follow, but as far as I can tell don't fully work. The most senior of us estimates it would take our team a year's dedicated full-time work to finish it (which is not a realistic business proposition, based on how many requests for new features we get from customers).
I'm inclined to upgrade the website rather than spin out a new one. This is partly because I can see the sense in that post. Another reason is that we're all employed as jack-of-all trade full stack developers (doubling as DBAs, sysadmins, etc...). We've got no particular expertise in UI design, and the UI for our present interface, although dated, is pretty user-friendly; it feels like a blank canvas would throw that structure out, and play to our weaknesses. Upgrading ruby/rails would also make any features we add during the upgrade much easier to add to the new site.
Apparently some experienced ruby devs who are friends with my boss have advised him informally it'd be so much work to bring the website up to date that it would be comparable to a complete re-write, which was the motivation for the spring project. This would have the advantage of only having to think about Java + javascript, and not trying to hire people who know both Java and ruby well.
Conventional wisdom seems to be upgrade rails in stages. I'm not sure how well this would work for us, for 2 reasons. For one thing, there 3 major versions for us to upgrade, which might have significant changes between them. More importantly, the code needs some TLC anyway with refactoring and the creation of a test suite.
I'm inclined to follow the following strategy:
Invest some developer time in training, to get a sense of the relevant best practises and the "rails ways" of doing things, rather than the "good enough to hack" knowledge most of us have now.
fire up a new rails 5.1 project on ruby 2.4.0
Configure active record to use our old database
Copy across the javascript from the public folder of the existing project in to the relevant parts of the asset pipeline and save that headache for "phase 2".
Sort out a gemfile with updated versions of our dependencies (for example, mysql gem has been replaced by a mysql2 gem.) Installing rubocop seems like a good idea at this point.
Copy files across from old to new project one at a time. Read the code, figure out what it's doing, write the relevant tests, fix where they break. Use the ruby API and rails upgrade guides to update the syntax. Refactor until rubocop is appeased.
Once we've reproduced the functionality of the existing site, write a new stackoverflow post on how to sort out the javascript ;)
This certainly sounds like a lot of work, but seems less likely to produce a buggy mess than trying to reproduce our existing functionality from scratch in a different language. So...
Questions
Does this strategy seem sensible? Is this a case where the re-write is really a better option? Is tackling the JS separately the best call, or is it better to restructure it as we're examining the calls to it from the views? Or should we really upgrade -> 3.0, 3.1, ... 5.0, 5.1?
We've altered the database manually, adding new tables, new fields and whatnot directly rather than using .rails generate. 'Rails magic' seems to make this work at present, but should we anticipate problems in step 3?
Is there any logical order in which to approach the migration of ruby? As there's major changes to the routing, which is the central entry point of the application, it seems sensible to start there, followed by authentication, then the main page, and then add functions one at a time.
Part of the problem is "not knowing what we don't know" about the rails way of doing things. Apart from the canonical Ruby/Rails tutorials (Hartl, Ruby Monk, Ruby Koans, Kehoe's rails book), is there any essential reading we should be aware of before trying to take on such a large job? I'm especially thinking about things that may not be immediately obvious, like proper use of helper functions, module structure, etc.
Any other advice, comments, prayers, ... welcome!
I am writing an application where the webapp will be rails and it will allow a user to input rules/ruby-logic and save them to the database. Later on, Java will come along and grab these rules (if/else/elseif) and will execute them via jruby engine. I am wondering of the negatives and possible side-effects of this? And having two languages here?
I want to do rails front-end because the available plugins, and speed of development of webapps. For example, groovy doesnt have as many plugins and i believe that it's much slower in development.
Am I missing anything, or possible logic that may be hurtful in the future if I choose this solution?
In addition I think since ruby is dynamic it will be easier for the user to input rules via a 'ruby' syntax instead of another third-party library like bean shell.
I feel like most complex applications end up needing several languages eventually, usually interfacing through the DB as you're planning. I'm not sure what constraint leads to you Java on backend rather than ruby (guessing legacy or performance), but if that's a requirement then your plan sounds reasonable.
As far as negatives/side-effects, Jruby seems to lag a bit behind the latest ruby, but that's not generally a big deal as long as you match versions for the UI & backend. I can't think of anything that would be harmful in this off the top of my head, but the devil is always in the details ;-)
thanks for opening my question :)
I am a university student in Computer Engineering, and I've always done class projects in Java (apart from C, and Assembly, but for very specific things). Apart from that, I have worked for quite a lot of time on a web app done in ActionScript 3, contained in .jsp files and deployed onto a Google App Engine site.
Having that said, I now pretend to do a prototype of another web app, which will have registered users with blogs and a messaging system between them.
My question is, having time as a restraint (I have month and a half), and needing just to build a working prototype, could anyone tell me, in his/her opinion, what would be the best framework for me to start learning and use? (Take into account my Java & ActionScript background) I believe RoR is the most common in these cases, as its easy and quick, but I have no Ruby knowledge at all, and maybe it would be quicker for me to learn Scala (which coming fromJava shouldn't be that different) and Lift, and do it with them instead.
Many thanks in advance!
Pepillo
Last year I found myself in a very similar situation for creating a web based relationship browser for a computing science class. I would highly recommend RoR. Granted you will need to spend some time getting up to speed with Ruby, but it is well worth the small amount of time to learn. There is excellent documentation available and a ton of good tutorials.
Rails can generate much of the core code and database schema with the generator functions in seconds (see scaffolding generators). Considering your time constraint, I think this alone makes rails a good choice.
In terms of learning Ruby, you should not have much trouble with this if you are comfortable with any dynamically typed scripting languages.
Anyway, that has been my experience with rails. Good luck on your project!
I think I'm going with Play! Not only is the easiest for me, as I am a Java guy, but it's also the quickest when in conjuntion with Japid, according to a benchmark I saw.
I used Java for about 7 years now, mostly for web applications, and recently started using RoR. I must say it was really easy to pick up and get started. After only 2 months of working on my own project I started using it for a customer projects and it was far more easier to deliver production code then I had anticipated. So yes I can recommend Ruby and it was not hard at all to pick up.
However, RoR does require a nix platform like apple os or linux. I stated out with windows but there are simply too many drawbacks and bugs.
If you decide to go with ruby I can higly recommend Agile Web Development with Rails (Pragmatic Programmers) to get you started.
I've been playing around with Rails (version 3) for a few months now and I understand the framework fairly well. However, I have yet to develop a large website which offers lots of database access and user interaction.
I'm fairly skeptical of the following:
The Speed and Scalability of Ruby (I've heard that its up to 10 times slower than most other server-side languages).
The extra background processing that Rails as a framework (multiple levels of abstration).
The lack of enterprise-level web apps that run on Rails (the only ones that I can think of Groupon, Github and Hulu).
The complexity of the environment (nginx > mongrel > rails > ruby > website).
The behind-the-scenes SQL operations (I know that these can be optimized, but I'm sure that I'll miss some).
For these reasons, I'm unsure whether to continue using Rails or to switch to something that is built ontop a more performant language .. say Java Spring.
Please advise :)
There are tons of large sites and infrastructures in production that use Rails. This question has also been asked to death over the years of Rails being actively used for all manner of web apps, large and small.
Short version is that it is not the fastest language around but despite that scales fine if you know what you are doing. And you should have enough money to hire people that know what they are doing if you actually have any problems of scale.
Scaling any webapp is hard, use the language/framework you know. Programmer happiness is king.
You can get good performance with Ruby. Easy:
require 'inline'
inline :C do |builder|
builder.c <<-C_CODE
void run() {
// Write your entire application in C here
}
C_CODE
end
run
Problem solved ;)
Not the speed and scaling discussion again?
In webdevelopment the things that are the slowest is the network communication (receiving the request, getting al your data back), the database (getting all your data from the database), and most of the times it is not about the computation time at all.
While it is true that Ruby and Ruby on Rails seem more focused on programmer happiness, I think that every decent web-application built in .NET or Java has as many levels of abstraction.
The complexity of the environment? I think you mean deploying? There are a lot of options, but the most used options are Passenger (very easy deployment on top of an apache or nginx), or Torquebox.
Torquebox for the moment is the fastest, best scaling solution (based on JBoss Application server), and several big names in the Ruby community are calling Jruby the implementation of choise to deploy your applications. While AFAIK the commonest deploy still is using REE (Ruby Enterprise Edition) and Passenger.
Unless you know you are going to have to do serious mathematical, cpu-intensive operations, I think the question you should ask yourself is: which framework/language will give me the quickest result?
If you are very proficient in Java/Spring, that might be the answer for you. But if your only worry is performance in general, I would say: do not hesitate and go for Ruby on Rails. It is a pure joy to develop in. The ruby community is really awesome if you would encounter any issues: support is just a post away.
And to conclude, I want to add a few very big sites using Rails: LinkedIn is using rails (and jruby), and Twitter still is using Rails for their frontend.
I'm going to develop a collaborative site, and one of the features will be collaborative editing with realtime changes. i.e. when two or more users are editing the same doc, they can see each other changes as soon as they happen.
I have some experience with Ruby on Rails, so I was thinking about using EventMachine, but with all this hype around Node.js, I am know considering using it instead. So, what would be the main benefits of using Node.js instead of EventMachine?
tl;dr
What are the main differences between EventMachine and Node.js (besides the language)?
EventMachine has nothing to do with Rails apart from them both being written in the same language. You can get EventMachine as bare as Node.js; all you have to do is not add libraries to your project. In my experience the EventMachine libraries (like em-http) are much nicer than anything for Node. And you can use fibers instead of callbacks to avoid callback hell. Complete exception handling is pretty much impossible in Node because of all the callbacks. Plus Ruby is a nicer, more complete language than Javascript.
I tend towards the "use what you know" (even if it's a heavier architecture). Because of that, I don't see it being quite as simple as "EventMachine vs NodeJS." Mainly, the difference can be summarized as this:
NodeJS is a framework/language that was written to handle event based programming in JavaScript. That is its driving force. It's not an after thought, or a third party mechanism. It's baked right in to the language. You create callbacks/events because that's how the language is built. It's not a third party plug in, and doesn't alter your workflow.
EventMachine is a gem in Ruby that gives developers access to some of the goodness of the event based programming model. It's heavily used and well tested, but not baked directly in to the language. Both are locked to one CPU, but with event programming at Nodes core, it still has a leg up. Ruby wasn't written with concurrency in mind.
That said, technical problems can be overcome. The more important questions (from my view) that should guide your decision are these:
What will your production environment look like? Do you have complete control over the server? Can you host it however you want? Or will it be on a shared system to start with, and then you have to expand on that?
Do all the developers on your team have the ability to learn a new language very fast? How fast will they be able to understand an event-based language like JavaScript for the middle tier?
Do you need all of the architecture that Rails gives you (full Testing framework, scaffolding, models, controllers, etc)? Or is that overkill?
There are quite a few technical differences between the two. One is a language, one is a framework. Really, how heavy of a stack you want to run? How much learning will your developers have to do? Do you want a full stack the gives you a lot of niceties, that you may not use, or do you want a bare bones set up that runs extremely fast and concurrent, even though you may have to write extra boiler plate code and learn a new lanugage?
While Rails is not as heavy as some web application architectures, you're still going to need more processor power than you would to handle a similar amount of throughput in NodeJS. Assuming quality code for both systems. Bad code written on either stack is going to prevent the stack from shining. It really comes down to- Do you really want to learn a whole new way of doing things, or utilize your current understanding of Ruby to get things off the ground fast?
I know it's not really a definitive answer, but I hope this helps guide you to a decision!
One thing worth mentioning is the production story. EM, like most Rack stuff, has plenty of testing and monitoring tools available that are well tested, whereas Node.js falls well short in this respect.
At the time of writing, it seems almost impossible to get clear metrics from Node to answer questions like 'Do I need to scale'. There are options starting to form out there from the likes of Joyent, and always the roll-your-own argument, but nothing anywhere near tools such as NewRelic.
Node.js is very good from a performance / configurability point of view, but personally I wouldn't host it in production just yet.
Node.js
You get far better control low level control over what's going in. You can include general libraries to build on top of node.js to tweak your level of abstraction to your own liking. For example you can use connect or express depending on whether you want a view engine written for you.
You can use socket.io or now depending on how much you want your client-server connection abstracted. You can opt to include any of numerous MVC libraries or write your own.
Event-Machine
An asynchronous IO library just like node.js
It comes down to a Ruby vs JavaScript preference, how much flexibility you want with abstractions or lack of abstractions and whether you want to use node as your actual web server.
a detailed view at confusion has already been proposed... just a personal view
[] node.js will be better, if you are ready to learn and experiment more than you think because:
it's thread mechanism is awesome (inspired from that of 'erlang')
you can build a purpose specific server (easily) which will be real productive