I'm interested in using Subsonic 3.0 for developing a new ASP.Net MVC application that will be going into production use soon. Would this be a feasible option? Does anyone have an idea when 3.0 is going to be released? Is anyone else using it on a production MVC application?
I'm getting there - we're in the clean up phase and I'm happy to say Eric's jumped back into the fray :). I ran perf tests the other day and fixed up some bottle-necks and the core is pretty much where we want it to be.
I have no idea when it will be ready...
I'm not using it on a production site yet, although I am building a future production site with it, but its a hobby project so I can't get fired if the DAL has a bug and SS4 will probably be out before my hobby project.
So far I have not run across any show stoppers or actually any bugs at all and in the past I've found that if you do find an issue Rob is pretty good about getting a patch in pretty quick. So I guess to answer your question it's probably not "production ready", but in playing around with it I felt it was pretty darn solid and chose it over LINQtoSQL or Entity Framework. I'd recommend isolating your DAL (IRepository) that way if you run into something with SS you can swap out with something else fairly quickly.
Regarding as to when it is ready - I'll let Rob chime in on that one. I think he is using it for building out some other app so he's sort of using that to dog-fooding SS3 - my guess is it will be a couple months yet though.
I think for me the only show stopper is the fact that it doesn't run in medium trust.
While for nearly all projects we work on this isnt an issue as its a dedicated environment for fast "get-em up" sites that subsonic is REALLY good for this sucks as it means that a shared host is not possible... :(
but subsonic 2.0 is great for that even if its lacking linq support.
p.s i know they are working on this :)
Related
I know that Symfony2 has been released, but is it production ready, or are they still finding and fixing so many bugs as to make it impractical?
How is performance in a production environment? Are there current benchmarks anywhere?
I'm looking to build an n-tier web site and am deciding on whether learning sf2 will be time well spent compared to just sticking with sf1.4.
What gaps are there in symfony2 - from what it seems there's no official admin generator. Is anything else missing?
I have released a Symfony 2 based project that was featured in a major newspaper and did well. I'd deem it as production ready. I also did some load tests with jMeter and the man from the hosting company was impressed by the performance.
The only thing lacking IMO is the amount of tutorial and special articles that you have for Symfony 1. Nevertheless, I'll use Symfony 2 for all my future projects.
One slight problem at the moment could be the hosting companies: You absolutely need PHP 5.3 (most companies still offer 5.2 only) and a caching mechanism (APC or memcached) for maximum Doctrine 2 performance.
Symfony2 is definitely production ready. The developers are just fixing minor bugs since the stable release. I know Fabien Potencier published some benchmark tests a while ago, but I can't find them. Maybe you'll have better luck. Anyway, I believe it's faster than any other framwork out there.
You're right when you say there isn't an official admin generator, but you can use SonataAdminBundle, which is absolutely awesome (but a little hard to get to work properly).
See here regarding the admin generator - apparently there is one :)
symfony2 propel crud generator
thanks for opening my question :)
I am a university student in Computer Engineering, and I've always done class projects in Java (apart from C, and Assembly, but for very specific things). Apart from that, I have worked for quite a lot of time on a web app done in ActionScript 3, contained in .jsp files and deployed onto a Google App Engine site.
Having that said, I now pretend to do a prototype of another web app, which will have registered users with blogs and a messaging system between them.
My question is, having time as a restraint (I have month and a half), and needing just to build a working prototype, could anyone tell me, in his/her opinion, what would be the best framework for me to start learning and use? (Take into account my Java & ActionScript background) I believe RoR is the most common in these cases, as its easy and quick, but I have no Ruby knowledge at all, and maybe it would be quicker for me to learn Scala (which coming fromJava shouldn't be that different) and Lift, and do it with them instead.
Many thanks in advance!
Pepillo
Last year I found myself in a very similar situation for creating a web based relationship browser for a computing science class. I would highly recommend RoR. Granted you will need to spend some time getting up to speed with Ruby, but it is well worth the small amount of time to learn. There is excellent documentation available and a ton of good tutorials.
Rails can generate much of the core code and database schema with the generator functions in seconds (see scaffolding generators). Considering your time constraint, I think this alone makes rails a good choice.
In terms of learning Ruby, you should not have much trouble with this if you are comfortable with any dynamically typed scripting languages.
Anyway, that has been my experience with rails. Good luck on your project!
I think I'm going with Play! Not only is the easiest for me, as I am a Java guy, but it's also the quickest when in conjuntion with Japid, according to a benchmark I saw.
I used Java for about 7 years now, mostly for web applications, and recently started using RoR. I must say it was really easy to pick up and get started. After only 2 months of working on my own project I started using it for a customer projects and it was far more easier to deliver production code then I had anticipated. So yes I can recommend Ruby and it was not hard at all to pick up.
However, RoR does require a nix platform like apple os or linux. I stated out with windows but there are simply too many drawbacks and bugs.
If you decide to go with ruby I can higly recommend Agile Web Development with Rails (Pragmatic Programmers) to get you started.
I am about to start a new project and I am hung up on which language/framework to use. I've been a PHP programmer professionally, but it wasn't on the scale of this project. I've played around with RoR and i've been very impressed so far. Right now, the two leading candidtates are RoR and Symfony2.
My major hang ups with RoR:
- i don't know ruby, or i hardly do. i can read it ok, but get stuck writing the code.
- i've read complaints about it being slow, and it seems to be slow just at the CLI.
My major hang ups with Symfony2:
- there's practically no documentation for it. Symfony1.x? sure..but not symfony2
- there's also little support. the BB on their site is like 80% spam.
- went to install it on a local dev enviroment haven't been able to even get that running (see my first hang up)
this project will be fairly complex and go beyond the basic CRUD operations. it isn't under a super-tight timeline, but there is one. ~3 months for milestone1 which is basically a calendar, some financial organization stuff (not transactions with financial institutions, just personal finance organization type stuff), and a project manager/cms.
also, i'm open to using other frameworks, but symfony2 seems to be the best right now. if symfony2 had RoR's support/documentation/tutorials/etc it would be a no brainer.
i'm really interested in hearing what the stackoverflowverse has to say on the matter. im constantly impressed with the quality of the answers/replies on this site.
some other sub-questions (that are in my head right now):
- if you recommend a different php framework, why?
- what are you biggest gripes with any of the options mentioned?
i know CakePHP is the closest to RoR, but i've been reading that the models are a bit wonky (Many to many relationships and such).
right now, i'm leaning towards RoR. Simply put, i really want to learn it and it could do the job. i just don't know ruby and i've ready a lot of good about symfony2.
any advice you could offer will be greatly appreciated. thanks!
Personally, I'd recommend that if you're starting a new project which happens to be the largest project you've ever had to do then you should stick with what you know best. This happens to be PHP.
I've used Ruby or Rails. In fact, we have some production apps at our company that use RoR. The best way I learnt RoR was to work on small projects. I would never have considered to choose a programming language which I'm not familiar with and then on top of that learn a new framework to start coding a big project.
As for Symfony2, we started using it a couple of weeks ago. Symfony2 is an excellent framework and looks very promising. It's clean, nicely decoupled and fast. However, we ran into too many bugs/headaches/inconsistencies in Symfony2 to continue using it. We will start working on it again once it has matured and the documentation grows (lots of the docs are now out of date). Hopefully, they'll release some sort of Jobeet tutorial but for Symfony2.
Moving on to CakePHP. CakePHPs code base is old. In fact, it works fine on PHP 4.3.2. It doesn't take advantage of all the goodness that PHP5 has to offer (absract classes, interfaces, private & protected properties, exceptions, magic methods, annotations, pass objects by reference etc.) CakePHPs database abstraction layer, whilst it has had improvements, is not incredibly efficient once your database structures becomes too complex (many joins for example) it crumbles quite badly.
Moving on to Symfony 1.4 which I've used for many large projects
I enjoy using because:
PHP5
Event system
Dependency Injection
Caching system
Forms (nice integration into Doctrine 2) In fact, this is my favourite feature.
Many plugins (sfGuard for user management, for example)
Twig (nice templating language)
Highly configurable
Scalable (although not as fast as Symfony2)
A lot of documentation (Jobeet tutorial is great)
If PHP is for the moment your forte and you need to start working on a large project then start using a PHP based framework as you know the language syntax and functions the best.
Move onto RoR when you have a small project to do.
Just my 2 cents.
Best of luck.
To me Symfony2 has been great so far. Documentation is scarce compared to Symfony1.x but it's much easier to get started in Sf2 and, with things being very explicit, requires less knowledge of how the framework works internally.
There's an app/check.php script that will warn you of any dependency needed to run it, and support mostly happens in their mailing list which is very active (didn't even know there was a BB). Some components, like Twig, also have their own lists.
This is an old topic but things have changed a bit and I would recommend Symfony2. Their current documentation is great (symfony.com) and its much easier to learn for newbies. I did try RoR but with symfony I just got into it much quicker.
I'm amazed of how no one has mentioned the super rich GEM community for Ruby and therefore for Ruby on Rails, there is simply just so much functionality out there, so many people working on some many MIT/open source projects. To me, community is what drives me to go choose one framework over another. The amount of configurations and different template engines, there is just so much out there for ruby on rails.
For a comparison chart check this out:
http://vschart.com/compare/doctrine-php/vs/ruby-on-rails
At the end of the day it all boils down to whatever you know, but do not overlook the community and the functionality that has been written for you already, free of charge...
I'll echo solarc's comments about Symfony 2. I used it for a couple small projects, and am starting something more ambitious with it this week. I would like to see a complete Jobeet-style tutorial, but the main documentation is good enough to get started with IMHO. I'm giving that a thorough read, and have learned a few things that I missed using the documentation as a simple reference.
Finding bundles was my biggest frustration, but the documentation mentions knpbundles.com, and that seems like an excellent resource.
I'm quite a proficient ASP.Net Web Forms developer, but I would like to get some exposure to MVC to see what it's like and if there are benefits to using it.
Is it worth using MVC for a hobby project, my main concerns are:
It may hinder development times of the website
I may not appreciate any rewards for using MVC (i.e. testability)
Are my concerns reasonable?
Thanks
A hobby project may in fact be a perfect introduction to MVC if you want to learn it. I thoroughly recommend having a play. If you haven't used MVC before I wouldn't attempt it for a large scale project, smaller projects like you may be undertaking are great stepping stones for learning the new framework.
Of course, you've got to weigh up hindrance against progress. The time taken may hinder this project, but in the long term, getting an introductory exposure now has got to out weigh that?
I started a hobby-project earlier this year in ASP.NET MVC (later upgraded to MVC2), and it's the single best learning experience I've had the last few years.
So my answer is a definite 'YES'
Do it, and try to exploit as much of the features in MVC2 as possible. Strive to do things as simple and reusable as humanly (or maybe technically) possible, and you'll be a master in MVC2 in no time :D
Why not?
You say it's a pet project, so time is not really an issue. Given a good book, or based on the examples on the ASP.NET site, you should be able to get up to speed fairly quickly.
Testability is one of the strong points for ASP.NET MVC, so maybe you should try writing tests and decoupling your views from business logic? Who knows, you may like it. Either way, doing so will allow you to claim personal experience of using a new technology on your CV, plus learning something new is always fun.
You'll learn from it and can then take it into a work situation. And besides that, it's nicer to work with than web forms...
I certainly wouldn't want my first venture into a new technology to be a live project so I'd certainly recommend starting a hobby project.
Throughout your first development in ASP.NET MVC you will probably make architectural mistakes whilst you get used to the MVC pattern. You will also find yourself without much of the WebForms functionality and will need to think about how best to apply your design to the technology.
Essentially, you'll learn whether it is worth using it or not throughout the project. A decent rule-of-thumb is that any project that will take you more than a couple of months development time will probably be better developed with MVC.
Just to add to the above, I too would recommend you play with MVC. I've found that I'm actually more productive in MVC than in Web Forms.
In case you have not found this tutorial, highly recommended as a beginners guide and written by Scott Guthrie:
Html Version
PDF Version
What to choose for the foundation of a new webshop project? I have narrowed down my options into using ASP.NET MVC, so that is a must. That leaves me with:
Rob Conery's Kona (not being updated anymore but all in all seems a good foundation, though with a huge amount of features)
MVC MusicStore by Jon Galloway (very simple, in fact it could be easier to start from scratch and take in consideration all the special details we need)
Start from scratch
Anything else?
I've worked with the MVC for the last year so I could start from scratch and have the basic functionality developed in no time but I like Rob's extended functionality he added.
It is just that I am unsure how difficult it is to tailor Kona to our individual needs - anyone tried it yet? For instance, use EF instead of NHibernate?
To be honest, half the fun with Rob Conerys series was being "there" during the process he went through and the trials and tribulations he encountered. If you already have a foundation of using MVC for a year i'm not sure if there'd be too much more to take from it.
The most fundamental thing about the MVC pattern and the .NET tools that come into their own with using it (extension methods baby!), is that there are so many ways of solving the problem, some good, some better and occasionally some that make you go BAZINGA!.
If you have the time, i'd highly recommend just hacking away and see what you come up with.
After you've got a working prototype it's always good to then compare to what else is out there, for example with something like this post
You could also consider using Rob's new starter site: "Tekpub MVC 2.0 Starter Site". It's inspired loosely on his experiences with Rails, and has a bunch of nice utilities built in from the get-go. It's built as a result of his MVC 2.0 course on TekPub, which he recorded with Steven Sanderson.