I understand that Apache Thrift and ZeroMQ are softwares belonging to different categories, and it is not easy to do a comparison since it is an apple to orange comparison. But I don't know why they belong to different categories. Aren't they both used to pass data between different services, which may or may not be written in different languages?
When should I use Thrift and when should I use a message queue?
They belong to different categories primarily because they are targetted at different audiences with different concerns. Therefore they are better at different things.
Apache Thrift similar to Google Protocol Buffers is intended to be high-level, reasonably well abstracted means to send data between processes on different machines, possibly in different languages. They purposefully provide an IDL-ish layer to describe the message, perhaps with automatic or semi-automatic versioning and optional sections.
ZeroMQ specifically on the other hand, not message queues in general (which would be an entirely separate question), is all about speed. They efficiently move bytes to the other end. As few stops along the way as possible. As such, you are responsible for serialization, versioning, or whatever else is important to you the developer. Of course, this can mean complexity, particularly if you are communicating between different platforms and languages, but that's part of the penalty for lack of abstraction.
Which to choose? Depends on your project. If you don't need absolute raw performance, a higher level toolkit will likely serve your purpose just fine. If you are building a high-speed low-latency application, you're going to end up closer to the metal anyways.
Good Luck
Thrift defines how to represent complex data so that it can be written and read by different languages (hence it has IDL to define types that will be transported). It also defines simple means to transport such formatted message between two end points (aka thirft transport).
On the other hand ZeroMQ shines in ways you can transport message between endpoints in order to acquire different behaviors like one to one, one to many, many to many, and different expectations of speed and reliability of such transfers. And as for message itself it is just a blob to ZeroMQ, and apps should find a way to encode decode them.
So if you have complex data structures but simple messaging patterns, you might lean on the thrift side. If you have simple data but complex messaging patterns, you might lean on the ZeroMQ or something like that (AMQP).
And if you need both, you could use THrift and ZeroMQ in pair, thrift to format the message, and ZeroMQ to transport it.
Davorin mentioned using Thrift and ZeroMQ in pair and in case you're interested in that approach checkout the Thrift codebase and look under thrift/contrib/zeromq for a demo of Thrift using ZermoMQ.
Related
How scalable is ZeroMQ? I'm especially interested in understanding its potential for running on a large number (10,000 - 15,000) of cores.
We've tried to make it as scalable as possible but I personally tested only on up to 16 core boxes. Up to that limit we've seen almost linear scaling.
You don't mention whether your 10k or 15k cores are on the same box or not.
Let's assume they are. Every two years the number of cores on a box can, theoretically, double. So if we have 16-core boxes today, it'll be 16K cores in 20 years.
So now, your question is maybe, "will ZeroMQ help my application scale to such huge numbers of cores, so that it will scale over the next 20+ years?" The answer is "yes, but only if you use it properly". This means designing your application using inproc sockets and patterns that properly divide the work, and flow of data. You will need to adjust the architecture over time.
If your question is, "can I profitably use that many cores between multiple applications", the answer lies with your O/S more than ZeroMQ. Can your I/O layer handle the load? Probably, yes.
And if your question is, "can I use ZeroMQ across a cloud of 10K-16K boxes", then the answer is "yes, this has already been proven in practice".
Note that although ZeroMQ is multithreaded internally, it may not be wise to rely solely on that to scale it up to large numbers of cores. However, because ZeroMQ uses the same API for inter-machine, inter-process and inter-thread communication, it is easy to write application using ZeroMQ that can move seamlessly into a one-process-per-core scenario or into a grid fabric of many, many machines.
ZeroMQ already has a reputation for being the fastest structured messaging protocol around so if you were going to do benchmarks to choose a technology, ZeroMQ should definitely be one of them.
The two big reasons for using ZeroMQ are its easy-to-use cross-language API (see all the examples on the ZeroMQ Guide site) and its low overhead both in terms of bytes on the wire, and in terms of latency. For instance ZeroMQ can leverage UDP multicast to run faster than any TCP protocol, but the application programmer doesn't need to learn a new API. It is all included.
I am trying to design an event driven system where the elements of the system communicate by generating events that are responded to by other components of the system. It is intended that the components be independent of each other - or as largely independent as I can make them. The system will initially be implemented on Windows 7, and is being written in Delphi. The generated events will be generated by the Delphi code. I understand how to implement a system of the type described on a single machine.
I wish to design the system so that it can readily be deployed on different machine architectures in particular with different components running on a distributed architecture, which may well be different to Windows 7. There is no requirement for the system ever to communicate with any systems external to itself.
I have tried investigating the architecture I need to consider and have looked at the questions mentioned below. These seem to point towards utilising named pipes as a mechanism for inter-hardware communications. As a result of these investigations I have sketched out the following to describe my system - the first part of the diagram is the system as I am developing it; the second part what I have deduced I would need for possible future implementations.
This leads to the following points:
Can you pass events via named pipes?
Is this an appropriate and sensible structure to tackle this problem?
Are there better alternatives?
What have I forgotten (at this level of granularity)?
How is event driven programming implemented?
How do I send a string from one instance of my Delphi program to another?
EDIT:
I had not given the points arising from "#I give crap answers" response sufficient consideration. My initial responses to his points are:
Synchronous v Asynchronous - mostly asynchronous
Events will always be in a FIFO queue.
Connection loss - is not terribly important - I can afford to deal with this non-rigourously.
Unbounded queues are a perfectly good way of dealing with events passed (if they can be) - there is no expectation of large volume of event generation.
For maximum deployment flexibility (operating-system independent), I recommend to take a look at popular open source message brokers which run on the Java platform. Using standard protocols. they integrate well with Delphi and other programming languages, can be used with web applications, and have a large installed user base and active community.
They are quite easy to install and configure in a few minutes, and free / commercial clients for Delphi are available.
Some examples are:
Apache ActiveMQ
OpenMQ
JBoss HornetQ
I also recommend the book "Enterprise Integration Patterns" by Martin Fowler as an overview and introduction, with many simple recipes to handle specific problems.
Note that I am a developer of commercial Delphi clients for enterprise messaging systems, such as xmlBlaster, RabbitMQ, Amazon Simple Queue Service and the three brokers mentioned above.
I can only answer for your point 4 here: You have not yet decided if an event is synchronous or asynchronous. In the async case, you have to decide what to do when messages arrive. Do you have a queue? How big is the queue? Can one grab arbitrary elements in the queue or is it strictly FIFO. What happens if a message is lost (somebody axes the network cable)?
In the sync variant, the advantage is that you got delivery guarantees, but then what do you do when connections are suddenly lost?
Connection loss is going to be a problem. The more machines you have, the greater is the chance that they will occur. Decide how you will handle that.
Another trouble may be what you do if you have a large event and several small. Is the order of transfer FIFO or smallest-first? Can events be reeordered? What are the assumptions here?
The aside is that I hack Erlang a lot. In Erlang all the event-handling is already solved but it also means a specific model is chosen for you (async, unbounded queues, no guaranteed delivery, but detection of connection loss).
I suggest to look at RabbitMQ, http://www.rabbitmq.com/. It has the server and client. Just need some wrapper codes in delphi and you are ready to build your business logic
Cheers
This is probably just an application for a message queue.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms632590(v=vs.85).aspx
I have some data that I need to share between multiple services on multiple machines. Stuffing the data into a database or shuffling it over http won't work in this situation and ideally the different pieces of software will need to communicate with each other directly (or through one central coordinator that can send and receive).
Is it recommended to create and implement a network protocol or use some tool to do the communication?
If I did go the route of creating a protocol myself, it wouldn't have to be very complex. Under 10 different message types, but it would have to be re-implemented in a few different languages for this project, and support unicode. I have read plenty (and done some) with handling sockets, but don't have much knowledge in handling a protocol I create. Are there any good resources on this?
There are also things like ICE and RPC that look intresting. The limit of my experience is using ICE and XMLRPC for a few days each. Is this the better route to go? If so what tools are out there?
Recently I've been using Google Protocol Buffers for encoding and shipping data between different machines running software written in different languages. It is quite easy to do, and takes away a lot of the hassle of designing a custom protocol.
Without knowing what technologies and platforms you are dealing with, it's difficult to give you a very specific answer - so I'll try to give you some general feedback.
If the system(s) you are wishing to connect span more than a single platform and/or technology you are probably better using an existing transport mechanism and protocol to maximize the chance your base platform will already have a library (or multiple) to interact over it. Also, integrating security and other features in a stack with known behaviors is more likely to be documented (with examples floating around). RPC (and ICE, though I've less familiarity with it) has some useful capabilities, but it also requires a lot of control over the environment and security can be convoluted (particularly if you are passing objects between different languages).
With regards to avoiding polling, this is a performance related issue; there are design patterns which can help you to handle such things - if you understand how you need the system to work (e.g. the observer pattern - kind of a dont-call-us-we'll-call-you approach). The network environment you are playing in will dictate which options are actually viable (e.g. a local LAN will have different considerations from something which runs over a WAN or the internet). Factors like firewall tunneling, VPN traversal, etc. should play part in your final selected technology profile.
The only other major consideration (that I can think of just now... ;-)) would be to consider the type of data you need to pass about. Is it just text, or do you need to stream binary objects? Would an encoding format (like XML or JSON or bJSON) do the trick? You mention "less than ten message types" as part of the question, but is that the only information which would ever need to be communicated by the system?
Either way, unless the overhead of existing protocols is unacceptable you're better of leveraging established work 99% of the time. Creativity is great - but commercial projects usually benefit from well-known behaviors, even if not the coolest or slickest (kind of the "as long as it works..." approach).
hth!
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I would like to know a list of the most common application/websites/solutions where Erlang is used, successfully or not.
Explaining why it is used into a specific solution instead of others programming languages would be very much appreciated, too.
Listing BAD Erlang case studies (cases in which Erlang is misused) it would be interesting, as well.
From Programming Erlang:
(source: google.com)
Many companies are using Erlang in their production systems:
• Amazon uses Erlang to implement SimpleDB, providing database services as a part
of the Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2).
• Yahoo! uses it in its social bookmarking service, Delicious, which has more than
5 million users and 150 million bookmarked URLs.
• Facebook uses Erlang to power the backend of its chat service, handling more than
100 million active users.
• WhatsApp uses Erlang to run messaging servers, achieving up to 2 million connected users per server.
• T-Mobile uses Erlang in its SMS and authentication systems.
• Motorola is using Erlang in call processing products in the public-safety industry.
• Ericsson uses Erlang in its support nodes, used in GPRS and 3G mobile networks
worldwide.
The most popular open source Erlang applications include the following:
• The 3D subdivision modeler Wings 3D, used to model and texture polygon
meshes.
• The Ejabberd system, which provides an Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol
(XMPP) based instant messaging (IM) application server.
• The CouchDB “schema-less” document-oriented database, providing scalability
across multicore and multiserver clusters.
• The MochiWeb library that provides support for building lightweight HTTP servers.
It is used to power services such as MochiBot and MochiAds, which serve
dynamically generated content to millions of viewers daily.
• RabbitMQ, an AMQP messaging protocol implementation. AMQP is an emerging
standard for high-performance enterprise messaging.
ejabberd is one of the most well know erlang application and the one I learnt erlang with.
I think it's the one of most interesting project for learning erlang because it is really building on erlang's strength. (However some will argue that it's not OTP, but don't worry there's still a trove of great code inside...)
Why ?
An XMPP server (like ejabberd) can be seen as a high level router, routing messages between end users. Of course there are other features, but this is the most important aspect of an instant messaging server. It has to route many messages simultaneously, and handle many a lot of TCP/IP connections.
So we have 2 features:
handle many connections
route messages given some aspects of the message
These are examples where erlang shines.
handle many connections
It is very easy to build scalable non-blocking TCP/IP servers with erlang. In fact, it was designed to solve this problem.
And given it can spawn hundreds of thousand of processes (and not threads, it's a share-nothing approach, which is simpler to design), ejabberd is designed as a set of erlang processes (which can be distributed over several servers) :
client connection process
router process
chatroom process
server to server processes
All of them exchanging messages.
route messages given some aspects of the message
Another very lovable feature of erlang is pattern matching.
It is used throughout the language.
For instance, in the following :
access(moderator, _Config)-> rw;
access(participant, _Config)-> rw;
access(visitor, #config{type="public"})-> r;
access(visitor, #config{type="public_rw"})-> rw;
access(_User,_Config)-> none.
That's 5 different versions of the access function.
Erlang will select the most appropriate version given the arguments received. (Config is a structure of type #config which has a type attribute).
That means it is very easy and much clearer than chaining if/else or switch/case to make business rules.
To wrap up
Writing scalable servers, that's the whole point of erlang. Everything is designed it making this easy. On the two previous features, I'd add :
hot code upgrade
mnesia, distributed relational database (included in the base distribution)
mochiweb, on which most http erlang servers are built on
binary support (decoding and encoding binary protocol easy as ever)
a great community with great open source projects (ejabberd, couchdb but also webmachine, riak and a slew of library very easy to embed)
Fewer LOCs
There is also this article from Richard Jones. He rewrote an application from C++ to erlang: 75% fewer lines in erlang.
The list of most common applications for Erlang as been covered (CouchDb, ejabberd, RabbitMQ etc) but I would like to contribute the following.
The reason why it is used in these applications comes from the core strength of Erlang: managing application availability.
Erlang was built from ground up for the telco environment requiring that systems meet at least 5x9's availability (99.999% yearly up-time). This figure doesn't leave much room for downtime during a year! For this reason primarily, Erlang comes loaded with the following features (non-exhaustive):
Horizontal scalability (ability to distribute jobs across machine boundaries easily through seamless intra & inter machine communications). The built-in database (Mnesia) is also distributed by nature.
Vertical scalability (ability to distribute jobs across processing resources on the same machine): SMP is handled natively.
Code Hot-Swapping: the ability to update/upgrade code live during operations
Asynchronous: the real world is async so Erlang was built to account for this basic nature. One feature that contributes to this requirement: Erlang's "free" processes (>32000 can run concurrently).
Supervision: many different strategies for process supervision with restart strategies, thresholds etc. Helps recover from corner-cases/overloading more easily whilst still maintaining traces of the problems for later trouble-shooting, post-mortem analysis etc.
Resource Management: scheduling strategies, resource monitoring etc. Note that the default process scheduler operates with O(1) scaling.
Live debugging: the ability to "log" into live nodes at will helps trouble-shooting activities. Debugging can be undertaken live with full access to any process' running state. Also the built-in error reporting tools are very useful (but sometimes somewhat awkward to use).
Of course I could talk about its functional roots but this aspect is somewhat orthogonal to the main goal (high availability). The main component of the functional nature which contributes generously to the target goal is, IMO: "share nothing". This characteristic helps contain "side effects" and reduce the need for costly synchronization mechanisms.
I guess all these characteristics help extending a case for using Erlang in business critical applications.
One thing Erlang isn't really good at: processing big blocks of data.
We built a betting exchange (aka prediction market) using Erlang. We chose Erlang over some of the more traditional financial languages (C++, Java etc) because of the built-in concurrency. Markets function very similarly to telephony exchanges. Our CTO gave a talk on our use of Erlang at CTO talk.
We also use CouchDB and RabbitMQ as part of our stack.
Erlang comes from Ericsson, and is used within some of their telecoms systems.
Outside telecoms, CouchDb (a document-oriented database) is possibly the best known Erlang application so far.
Why Erlang ? From the overview (worth reading in full):
The document, view, security and
replication models, the special
purpose query language, the efficient
and robust disk layout and the
concurrent and reliable nature of the
Erlang platform are all carefully
integrated for a reliable and
efficient system.
I came across this is in the process of writing up a report: Erlang in Acoustic Ray Tracing.
It's an experience report on a research group's attempt to use Erlang for Acoustic Ray Tracing. They found that while it was easier to write the program, less buggy, etc. It scaled worse, and performed 10x slower than a comparable C program. So one spot where it may not be well suited is CPU intensive scenarios.
Do note though, that the people wrote the paper were in the stages of first learning Erlang, and may not have known the proper development procedures for CPU intensive Erlang.
Apparently, Yahoo used Erlang to make something it calls Harvester. Article about it here: http://www.ddj.com/architect/220600332
What is erlang good for?
http://beebole.com/en/blog/erlang/why-erlang/
http://www.aquabu.com/2008/2/15/erlang-pragmatic-studio-day-3-notes
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9q0lr/erlang_and_highfrequency_trading/
(jerf's answer)
It's important to realize that Erlang's 4 parts: the language itself, the VMs(BEAM, hipe) standard libs (plus modules on github, CEAN, etc.) and development environment are being steadily updated / expanded/improved. For example, i remember reading that the floating point performance improved when Wings3d's author realized it needed to improve (I can't find a source for this). And this guy just wrote about it:
http://marian-dan.com/wordpress/?p=324
A couple years ago, Tim Bray's Wide Finder publicity and all the folks starting to do web app frameworks and HTTP servers lead (at least in part) to improved regex and binaries handling. And there's all the work integrating HiPE and SMP, the dialyzer project, multiple unit testing and build libs springing up, ..
So its sweet spot is expanding, The difficult thing is that the official docs can't keep up very well, and the mailing list and erlang blogosphere volume are growing quickly
We are using Erlang to provide the back-end muscle power for our really real-time browser-based multi-player game Pixza. We don't use Flash or any other third-party plugins, though the game is real-time multi-player. We use pure JS and COMET techniques instead. And Erlang supports the "really realtimeliness" of Pixza.
I'm working for wooga, a social game company and we use Erlang for some of our game backends (basically http apis for millions of daily users) and auxiliary services like ios push notification provider, payment etc.
I think it really shines in network related tasks and it makes it kind of straight forward to structure and implement simple and complex network services alike in it. Distribution, fault tolerance and performance are easy to achieve because Erlang already has some of the key ingredients built in and they are being used for a long time in critical production infrastructure. So its not like "the new hip technology thing 0.0.2 alpha".
I know that other game companies use Erlang as well. You should be able to find presentations on slideshare about that.
Erlang draws its strength from being a functional language with no shared memory. Hence IMO, Erlang won't be suitable for applications that require in place memory manipulations. Image editing for example.
I am considering Erlang as a potential for my upcoming project. I need a "Highly scalable, highly reliable" (duh, what project doesn't?) web server to accept HTTP requests, but not really serve up HTML. We have thousands of distributed clients (other systems, not users) that will be submitting binary data to central cluster of servers for offline processing. Responses would be very short, success, fail, error code, minimal data. We want to use HTTP since it is our best chance of traversing firewalls.
Given this limited information about the project, can you provide any weaknesses that might pop up using a technology like Erlang? For instance, I understand Erlang's text processing capabilities might leave something to be desired.
You comments are appreciated.
Thanks.
This sounds like a perfect candidate for a language like Erlang. The scaling properties of the language are very good, but if you're worried about the data processing abilities, you shouldn't be. It's a very powerful language, with many libraries available for developers. It's an old language, and it's been heavily used/tested in the past, so everything you want to do has probably already been done to some degree.
Make sure you use erlang version R11B5 or newer! Earlier versions of erlang did not provide the ability to timeout tcp sends. This results in stalled or malicious clients being able to execute a DoS attack on your application by refusing to recv data you send them, thus locking up the sending process.
See issue OTP-6684 from R11B5's release notes.
With Erlang the scalability and reliability is there but from your project definition you don't outline what type of text processing you will need.
I think Erlang's main limitation might be finding experienced developers in your area. Do some research on the availability of Erlang architects and coders.
If you are going to teach yourself or have your developers learn it on the job keep in mind that it is a very different way of coding and that while the core documentation is good a lot of people do wish there were more examples. Of course the very active community easily makes up for that.
I understand Erlang's text processing
capabilities might leave something to
be desired.
The starling project already provides basic unicode support and there is a EEP (Erlang Enhancement Proposal) currently in draft, but going in to bring it into the mainstream of Erlang/OTP support.
I encountered some problems with Redis read performance from Erlang. Here is my question. I tend to think the reason is Erlang-written module, which has troubles while processing tons of strings during communication with Redis.