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I'm planning on creating a social networking + MP3 lecture downloading / browsing / commenting / discovery website using Ruby on Rails. Partially for fun and also as a means to learn some Ruby on Rails. I'm looking for a social networking framework that I can use as a basis for my site. I don't want to re-invent the wheel.
Searching the web I found three such frameworks. Which of these three would you recommend using and why?
http://portal.insoshi.com/
http://www.communityengine.org/
http://lovdbyless.com/
It depends what your priorities are.
If you really want to learn RoR, do it all from scratch. Seriously. Roll your own. It's the best way to learn, far better than hacking through someone else's code. If you do that, sometimes you'll be learning Rails, but sometimes you'll just be learning that specific social network framework. And you won't know which is which...
The type of site you're suggesting sounds perfect for a Rails project. If you get stuck, then go browse the repositories of these frameworks. Who cares if you're reinventing the wheel? It's your site, your vision, your rules.
If you just want a site up and running, then I would pick Insoshi or LovdbyLess simply because they're out of the box apps so you'll have to do less to do get running. I suggest trying to install them both, and introducing yourself in the Google Groups. That'll give you a good indication of wether you're going to get along.
Update: Insoshi's license has changed to the MIT license, which means you're basically free to do with it as you please. But still, review the license for any code you are considering before you get too invested in it.
Something to keep in mind when deciding is the license for the code. Insoshi is licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License, http://insoshi.com/license. This means that you have to distribute the source code to your Insoshi-based web application to anyone who uses that web application. You might not want to do that, in which case you'll need to pay Insoshi a license fee (they dual license, like MySQL).
LovdByLess is distributed under an MIT license, http://github.com/stevenbristol/lovd-by-less/tree/master/LICENSE. This means you can use the source code however you want to.
I've not worked with these but am aware of this comparison:
"Unlike Insoshi and Lovd By Less, which
are full social networking Rails
applications, Community Engine is a
plugin that can add social networking
features to existing Rails
applications"
from
http://www.rubyinside.com/community-engine-rails-plugin-that-adds-social-networking-to-your-app-901.html
Regarding RailsSpace, that's a very nicely built Rails 1.2 application, and I think it was updated for compatibility with Rails 2.x. There's even a terrific book that was written about the RailsSpace application (or rather, RailsSpace and the book were written together).
But, RailsSpace became Insoshi, when the authors were so inspired by the amount of interest in a social networking site built in Rails. So while RailsSpace might be an interesting learning exercise, it's dead in terms of development. All of the authors' efforts (for more than a year now, I think) have been going into Insoshi instead, so that's where you should be looking.
Another option for anyone who wants to create a social site without having to build it from scratch is the EngineY framework. EngineY is a social networking framework written in Ruby and Rails. It provides alot of popular social networking features such as activity streams, groups, photos, message boards, status updates, events, blogs, wall posts, integrated twitter feeds, and more. EngineY is also under active development with new features being added all the time. You can read more about EngineY and download it from: http://www.enginey.com
Use Rails 3 and roll your own. Don't copy and paste code though, look through the source and try to understand the reasoning or motive behind certain design decisions, only then will you learn.
Just a quick update, EngineY now supports Rails 2.3.5 and just released this weekend is support for themes. This goes along with existing features including groups, blogs, photos, REST API, status updates, Facebook Connect, forums, private messages, user profiles, activity feeds, wall posts, and more... Check it out at http://www.enginey.com or on GitHub at http://github.com/timothyf/enginey
One other positive to Community Engine is that it is using Engines which is an advanced type of plugin that is becoming a part of rails in 2.3. So what you learn from using Community Engine (and therefore Engines) will be useful going forward.
i'm currently testing both lovdbyless and insoshi. i was able to install and get insoshi up and running fairly quickly whereas lovdbyless is giving me a harder time.
if you're in novice mode, i suggest getting the book from Head First.
http://www.headfirstlabs.com/books/hfrails/
it is probably one of the better books out there for beginners. atleast in my opinion because i went through a few that was just way too confusing.
Related
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I like to experiment with different languages to keep my interest alive when working on small side projects away from my day job.
I'm finding it increasingly difficult to steer away from Django and Ruby on Rails because of a couple of features they come packed with (or that are mostly default and easily integrated): authentication and automatic admin interface. Django comes with both, with Rails you just have to add ActiveAdmin as a gem and you're ready to go.
When I try to experiment with different frameworks and languages (Noir for Clojure, Express for Node), most of the times I find interesting languages I'd love to work with but whose "web framework" idea is just some convenience method for routing and parsing URLs and requests, leaving you alone with all the common and annoying parts of web development, like form validation, user authentication and profiling, having a working admin interface and so on, all things that Django and RoR provide to you for free.
What other languages and frameworks have such commodities? I'm aware of some PHP frameworks like Symfony, but I really have used PHP for too long in pas years and I'm pretty fed of it. Thanks.
Stick with RoR in my opinion. It's still a young yet powerful framework. It's well maintained and quickly plugged whenever a security risk becomes known.
It doesn't really matter what kind of MVC framework you use since it all comes down to the programmer. Ruby on Rails cuts out the painful part of programming (IMO) and allows you to do the enjoyable parts. Requiring knowledge of SQL is very minimal within Rails unless you're doing complicated scoping.
If I kept searching around for different languages to explore after I found one that suited all of my needs and then some, I would never get anything done. Moving from PHP/CakePHP to Rails is definitely an upgrade in my opinion, but at this point, you're better off committing to one language (Python/Django or Ruby/Rails).
I would stick with Django. Having worked in everything from classic ASP, ASP.NET, ASP.NET MVC, Java, PHP and Rails, I can state, unequivocally that Django is hands-down the easiest to work with, most profitable framework I've ever used.
Rails does have some pretty controllers, but it pales in comparison when you get down to functionality. Sure, Rails has lots of plugins, but Django has nearly everything you need under one roof. Django-admin alone is a friggin' gold mine. I work full-time as a Technical Architect, but also own my own business. Switching from Rails to Django in 2008 was the single best thing I ever did for my business.
If you want something flexible, modular, easy-to-extend and incredibly well documented - Django is your ticket. You also see far, far fewer of these lovely posts with Django.
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I'm building a new game and I need to build a web app to help manage content generation. The app would consist of a couple simple forms that would tie into a MySQL db.
I've been really interested in learning Lua for a long time due to it's large popularity in the video game industry and was wondering how well it works as a server side language. I could easily write the web app in PHP but I'd rather use this opportunity to learn Lua if it makes sense.
What do you all think?
Cheers,
Sure it can be done. Good idea if you just want to learn Lua. You should start here: http://www.keplerproject.org/
Of course, if your app would consist of a couple simple forms, you can use all what you want. But if it is more complex (will become more complex in future) it will be better to use some industry standard languages like Python or Ruby (or, at least PHP), there are a lot of good frameworks writen in them that very simplify your work (I don't know about any complete lua web frameworks) .
You should remember, that in future other people will have to maintain your code and there are very few web-developers who know Lua.
Probably, there will be problems with documentation and basic libraries too.
While LUA is a nice language for embedded development but i would extremely vote against LUA for web development.
The reason is that in Games you simply don't have an external API. All is done with your own objects only some calls into your game engine.
But the web world is so full of stuff you need, like SMTP, POP3, IMAP, SSL, Amazon APIs, Google APIs, RSS Apis, Imaging etc. and while the checklist for LUA may have a check mark behind all this words - it doesn't mean anything. Most of the stuff i have seen is just a "me too| implementation but not industrial strength. They are projects by hobbyists and are published on a "Its good enough for me" basis which is total unacceptable if you ever go mission critical.
There is a reason why it takes years and a huge community to get this up. Lua has an extremely small community of web developers.
So if this is a professional project where you put your money i can only say hands off. On the other side if you have enough money i still have some snake oil here for sale, please contact me.
I have been using lua for years as a web language. Initially using the Xavante project and more recently apache2.
Dont listen to any neigh sayers, its a great language for web developement and we use it to write business software, and not just for form processing, for graphical applications too.
Also it offers us seamless integration to any other lua or system functions we might need to call.
Good Luck!
Have a look at Nanoki which is built on a pretty minimal set of libraries (lfs, luasocket, lzlib, slncrypto)
and Sputnik which is built on Xavante or CGI
Lua is a good language but it is best suited to embedding within an existing project in order to quickly extend the capabilities of that project. In particular, the interesting aspect comes with how you bind it to the host application. This is definitely the case when programming for games where it is an embedded language rather than the language the whole app tends to be written in. So using a web app to learn about Lua with a view to making games is probably not a very good approach, especially since the syntax is very simple and would be picked up quite quickly anyway.
I think that specific variants of lua can be used successfully for web applications and I have done that in the past using the maintained weblibrary. It can depend on if the lower level software on the computer is itself written in lua because of its high speed and this may cause a clash of lua versions. Regarding a serverside possibility the server would need a compatible version of the script developing facility for the hardware and a suitable bytecode or VM instructions and custom VM runtime implementation for running the application.
I've been developing a pure Lua Web Server, you could always check it out and see if it suits your needs
Lua4Web https://github.com/schme16/Lua4Web
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This question is not about which is the best, it is about which makes the most business sense to use as a company's platform of choice for ongoing freelance development.
I'm currently trying to decide what framework to move my company in regarding frameworks for web application work.
Options are
ASP.NET MVC
Django
CakePHP/Symfony etc..
Struts
Pearl on Rails
Please feel free to add more to the discussion.
I currently work in ASP.NET MVC in my Spare time, and find it incredibly enjoyable to work with. It is my first experince with an MVC framework for the web, so I can't talk on the others.
The reason for not pushing this at the company is that I feel that there are not many developers in the Media/Marketing world who would work with this, so it may be hard to extend the team, or at least cost more.
I would like to move into learning and pushing Django, partly to learn python, partly to feel a bit cooler (all my geeky friends use Java/Python/c++). Microsoft is the dark side to most company's I work with (Marketing/Media focused). But again I'm worried about developers in this sector.
PHP seems like the natural choice, but I'm scared by the sheer amount of possible frameworks, and also that the quality of developer may be lower. I know there are great php developers out there, but how many of them know multiple frameworks? Are they similar enough that anyone decent at php can pick them up?
Just put struts in the list as an option, but personally I live with a Java developer, and considering my experience with c#, I'm just not that interested in learning Java (selfish personal geeky reasons)
Final option was a joke
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2007/11/perl_on_rails.shtml
As you said for the media/digital marketing sector php is the way to go.
I love .Net (it would be my first choice if the target market wasn't a factor).
I would really look for good well rounded developers regardless of their tech or market as opposed to ones with "media/digital marketing sector" experience.
It is possible to find good/experienced/reliable developers with knowledge of multiple frameworks. If this is a requirement, it is of course possible to vet candidates accordingly.
Given that you're referring to freelance development, it would probably make sense to add the dimension of "where the developer is based" into your thinking, as dealing with someone who's a stone throw's away compared to dealing with someone abroad or another city may affect how you work together. This means that where you are based also affects your choice: if you're based in a small town, there will be less quality canditates close to you with suitable skill sets.
I'm currently learning Symfony for myself, and work as a freelance advisor/product developer for a site that's built with CakePHP. Although an experienced PHP developer should be able to make the leap from one of the above to the other quite quickly, there's a fair amount of framework-specific intricacies that can only really be learnt by coming across the problem and then searching for the solution, or by being guided by someone who already knows. Symfony is considered to have good documentation, but I feel that there's a quite a lot in it that's also not in the documentation and that can really only be learnt by doing it.
I also worked for a company quite recently who used Symfony, hired high-quality PHP developers only, and if I recall correctly, it was about a month or two for new guys to get familiar with the code and the workings of Symfony, and start becoming properly productive.
Hope that helps.
In my (heavily biased) opinion, Django is gaining some traction in this sector. Off the top of my head I can think of a number of high-profile news organizations that are making significant use of Django and I've seen reports of organizations utilizing Django for putting up special one-off sites quickly for unique coverage of special events or circumstances. I know firsthand that PBS and National Geographic also use Django extensively for their web properties and I understand Discovey Channel does as well. There is a nice testimonial about how Michael Moore's site was rebuilt quickly using Django: http://blog.concentricsky.com/2009/10/michaelmoore/. I'm not sure if MSNBC has begun utilizing Django internally, but they did acquire Everyblock.
A few others I'm aware of that use Django heavily:
Mahalo
NASA
University of Texas
I've also seen that Django is being used by startups outside the media sector so I wouldn't say it is specialized toward a particular business sector. There are a lot of organizations out there that have been sort of silently using Python internally over the years and so Django is quickly becoming a natural option for web-based services. Python actually has decent roots in the scientific communities, financial sector, and I've spoken with a number of people in the entertainment industry who use Python in their digital effects / post production pipelines.
Maybe not the most riveting content overall, but there is some good info in here: http://djangocon.blip.tv/file/3041158
Look at your clients. Frameworks are just tools, you will have to go with the tool that suits the particular job. This also means your choice to dive into a framework will choose your future clients.
Many SMB shops need PHP because that it is the easiest to host and is interoperable on many layers of "platform" (not just OS, but also supports all DBs etc.)
ASP.NET MVC: I heard a lot of awesomeness about it, I like C# as well. But I can't afford to go only with the options Microsoft provides (database for example) and Microsoft products only really support they own stuff.
Django: Expected to gain huge momentum, but I'll wait until the language itself (syntax) becomes stable.
CakePHP/Symfony: CakePHP is very easy to pick up and is a good choice if it fits all the requirements.
Struts: Quite heavy, I would learn Spring (MVC) instead.
Pearl on Rails: Haven't really used/seen it, so no idea.
You could also consider to learn a framework that is radically different from you current knowledge.
So I love Symfony. It does all I need for a Framework to work fast and clean.
The structure and the architecture is pre-defined so everybody knows where to put stuff, so you can easily work together with a whole bunch of developers.
I would never chose CakePHP over Symfony, because if you have to make changes to a model, you can never again generate code after the development has started.
CakePHP just overwrites everything.
I sure lost all my code a few times. Really annoying.
Symfony just extends the generated code and that is where you develop.
Here you find a good discussion about CodeIgniter (with which I develop at the moment, and it is no MVC and PHP4-based) and Symfony: codeigniter-vs-symfony
The learning curve is a bit steeper for Symfony, but it has enough complexity for all situations I ever encountered.
My next project will again base on Symfony 1.4. And if you can wait, there will soon be Symfony 2.0
ASP.NET MVC, but only if you can use both a frontend and a backend developer for each project. It'll probably be harder to find developers with both competences and you might have to push .net-developers a bit to get them to use MVC.
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My company is looking to move their software to an open source framework. Their first thought was J2EE. I know that Django and Rails are popular for recreational development, but not sure about them in a corporate setting.
I was looking to compile a list of possible web frameworks to consider. Unfortunately I am not able to release our requirements to the public. Also I would like to know if you have seen/used different frameworks in a corporate environment.
Thanks
I believe the more important question is what talents you got. If you have a primarily Java team, and you want to completely move to Ruby or Python, it's gonna be hard, if not impossible.
When deciding if X language/framework is good for a business, you have to consider opinions from your internal technical staff first. That normally sets you in a place with limited choices. Unless you are with a very small but highly talented/motivated team or planning to build a team with new hires.
Not sure what you mean by a corporate use, but we're using Django at a large media company for the websites of nearly 40 radio stations.
Another vote for Django. I'm not sure if the Washington Post or LA Times count as "corporate" but they have a lot more demands (both daily hits and time-to-new-feature) than your average "corporate" environment.
Struts, Stripes, Wicket, Spring MVC. I use Grails and love it.
You can go to Rails too. We use Rails successfully in a number of serious applications.
If you are just looking to save money from software, you can go to any J2EE frameworks out there. If you looking for some fun and rapid development, try Rails.
It all depends on the type of the project and the talent you have.
I use django in a real-time professional environment.
it's solid, and blazing fast (django on nginx/fastcgi, and soon couchdb too!)
We're using sinatra (ruby) for frontend to our main internal application. Simple, stable and flexible.
Struts2, Spring MVC, Stripes, Wicket, Grails, JSF, Seam, GWT, Flex, etc (Stripes and Grails being my favorite).
Matt Raible did interesting comparisons of (most of) them in this presentation which is an updated version of this old one.
Another interesting reading might be the What is the most commonly used Java web framework? question here on SO.
IMO, whatever you choose doesn't matter that much, the presentation layer will still be throw away code.
Any framework that keeps you away from the imperative languages (e.g. Java, C#, JSP with Java etc.) is better. Declarative/Functional/Data Flow languages (e.g. Ruby, XSLT, Python, etc.) result in solid implementations that save you support/enhancement $$$.
It sounds like the powers that be are comfortable with Java, but do yourself a favor and avoid J2EE. Go grab Restlet and Groovy, write a nice Rest back-end that not only serves as a programmatic API for your project, but will work nicely with any Ajax/Javascript library you choose to implement a UI in.
We are currently using Django and the web site is driving a lot of business to the company as well as growing by double digits since last year. It doesn't matter what kind of technology the corporation is using but what their business model is. What are you currently using in-house? It will make more sense to use a web framework related to your in-house code, knowledge and man power.
If nobody knows Rails or Django, you have to factor in the learning curve during the migration. It should only be a couple of weeks depending on the savviness of your developers. Then again if everyone hates or do not enjoy working with the in-house technology, trying a new one might be worth it.
"I know that Django and Rails are popular for recreational development (...)"
Rails:
http://basecamphq.com
http://highrisehq.com
Django:
http://www.lawrence.com/
http://www.everyblock.com/
They have high traffic and content-heavy services. I wouldn't call those guys business as "recreational development".
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I'm interested in building a site that has several interactive features for the users, yet want the site to be relatively light and avoid using Java or Flash. The site will start small but will hopefully be scalable. I realize developers tend to prefer a specific language and/or CMS and am wondering if you think a particular language would be best for creating a site with these features:
Short user profiles, photo upload, automatically generated thumbnails, a simple rating system, photo galleries, a blog section, ability to serve ads, user verification, polls, forms to enter contests, a taggable, searchable how-to library, a video library (using videos hosted on other sites)
I'd recommend you checkout Drupal CMS. Drupal covers almost all of your needs by means of drupal modules and/or drupal core itself.
Using drupal is easy, you don't have to be a programmer. Eventually you can hire a drupal programmer to take care of certain things that may not come with drupal or may not have any modules available. The other plus of a drupal programmer is that they are already familiar with the technology and can help you much more faster.
I would go for a python or ruby web application framework, say Django or ruby on rails, if this is going to be a single developer project it would probably make sense to leave it open on what framework to use - familiarize yourself with the frameworks and interview a wide variety of candidates.
Hire the best applicant and go for the framework of his/her choice - if he's any good, he can definitely tell why his choice is better than the other ones, not just claim that "it is" (or worse, it is the only one I'm familiar with)
wikipedia list of the frameworks
The best setup would be COBOL, with a UNIVAC on the back-end for storage and a vintage Enigma machine in between.
Or, alternatively, find the person you want to hire and let them decide. From the tone of your question, it would appear that you don't trust your technical abilities. What makes you think that you're going to get good advice from a bunch of random people on the internet?
Find a good consultant that has done work similar to what you're trying to do and let them decide on the tools. In the long run that will be the cheapest because paying someone to learn a new set of tools will be much more expensive than any other costs that might be associated wit ha particular set of software.
Any language will do the trick (although Prolog could be too tricky). Use what you know best unless you want a tradeoff for self-education in which case use the language you want to learn next.
I would recommend using Django framework which is based on Python language.
It's a tradeoff. "First with the worst" is a time-honored recipe for success. That would be PHP, huge first-place presence, cheap hosting, lots of existing frameworks, lots and lots of bad code. More sophisticated, in second place, would be Python. Yet more sophisticated, in third place, is Ruby. I'm not exactly sure where perl ranks in web development.
Note that you will tend to attract a slightly different kind of partner/developer/employee with each choice.
If it were me, I would go with Ruby plus a framework, perhaps RoR, unless one of the PHP CMS packages was really close to what I needed.
So much for opinions, here is a language and platform agnostic thing to consider: with the recent availability of cheap VPS hosting, you really can have any kind of site you want, yet you don't need to run your own machine room. It makes Java and the other JVM languages more attractive, I think.
If you want cost effective solutions then I will suggest you to go with LAMP. You will get almost all your required features in free open source scripts. Again the development of LAMP is comparatively cheap then ASP.Net.
By LAMP I mean Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP.
The hosting expenses of LAMP are also comparatively cheap.
There is no absolute answer; You will have as many answers than users.
Do not re-invent the wheel!
First of all you will need to define your wishes - almost done.
Then choose a product regarding to the price.
Finally, find a specific employee.
For your needs, you can look at:
joomla
sharepoint
eroom
openText
blog platform
framasoft, chapter CMS
Some thoughts:
I highly recommend against Drupal. My experience is that it is entirely too bloated to be considered less than obese (let alone light).
I've heard NOTHING good about wordpress.
Joomla has a good reputation, but it also has the reputation of having a higher learning curve (I've never spent real time with it). If you're hiring someone, however, this should be irrelevant.
Personally, my favorite systems in PHP are from EllisLab Inc. -- Expression Engine and Codeigniter. Both of these are very well written and generally lay a groundwork for reliable and maintainable code.
Ruby generally has the reputation of being simple enough to build in.
I would use caution with Python, because it is in the midst of a transition between incompatible versions and that could be hell.
I'd go for ASP.NET.. it's trivial to build the things you mention with WebForms, although I would go for MVC in a larger project.. just my 2 cents..
as far as hosting expences goes Windows and Linux is nowadays pretty much the same...